Defra approved?

kats53

I live in a smokeless zone and want to install a multifuel stove. We were told we should install a stove with an 8kw output. However I have been looking for a stove that fits this criteria, won't break the bank and also one that I like the look of to no avail. There are hardly any 8kw stoves that are defra approved.
I know that there are lots of people who live round here that pay no heed to the smokeless zone, I now think I know why as there is hardly any choice.
Does anyone have any views on the subject that might help me decide what to do for the best? I will appreciate your input because to tell you the truth the more I read about the different types of stove the more I'm changing my mind.

highrisklowreturn

With my limited knowledge you can buy a stove that isn't defra approved and burn away on it. You will still be in the law as long as you burn smokeless. Just remember to burn the good stuff at evenings and weekends when their overtime budgets run out (joke).

highrisklowreturn

Stoves are beautiful and the more I look at my £370 6kw Chinese job the more I consider it my best ever investment. The heat from coal can be terrific, it cheers me up, it often distracts me from TV, I read about 2 hours a night now with it glowing in the background whereas my reading had died away before, I stay much fitter chopping wood which is enjoyable - it was Kaiser Wilhelm's favourite activity in retirement - I know my coalman, I use a fuel source for which there is plentiful supply but vastly reduced demand, I can 'recycle' about 50% of all letters, cardboard, wood etc I used to bin, I free up space by not having as much rubbish, I'm the envy of friends, family and neighbours, I can get an unlimited wood supply in Belfast when the bonfire season starts, kindle costs nothing, my home actually feels like a home and not a place one eats ready meals and sleeps in between working hours, it adds ambience and looks great with strategic candle lighting, I can buy fuel for as little as £3 for logs, £5.50 for 3 days worth of coal, or take unwanted wood off others, as opposed to worrying if my oil tank's running out, or if Russia is about to invade the Ukraine sending my gas price through the roof, or if the Libyan rebels are all nutters a la Back to the Future 1 who will drive the oil prices ever higher, or if I need to wait till pay day or save massively to afford enough fuel for one night, I buy coal from a British mine keeping jobs in the UK, I circulate stale air out of the living room helping reduce a damp problem behind a book case, I heat my chimney breast so the living room is cosy in the morning without my having to wait 40 minutes for oil/gas radiators to heat up, I can leave coal in overnight, which still burns red in the morning and is, after a few sticks, ready for another shovel of coal, I can fell my own trees and store the wood, giving a totally free supply, I can gather sticks whilst out walking, I can pick up the wood scrap neighbours leave out for the binmen to dump, scavenge it and toast it etc etc etc

The pious on here will tell you not to do any of this, but the list of reasons to have a stove is too long to mention. The only 'snag' is cleaning up a bit of ash and dust, emptying the ashpan once a day (1 minute), a bit of hoovering, and storing your fuel, having a hearth put in - or making one - and buying a companion set (a tenner).

It's a no brainer.

Greenfires

hr's not far out there. Basically you can use any stove in a smoke control area as long as you burn one of the "authorised fuels". If you buy an exempt stove, then you may be able to burn other fuels as well. Having said all that, the general offence is "emmitting dark smoke" - and if you're burning decent fuel, then it really shouldn't be an issue. You're allowed to emit a bit while the fire is being lit - but after that you need to have a look at the Ringelmann Smoke Chart to see if yours is dark or not! In most cases, once the fire is established, and assuming you burn decent fuel at a decent rate - then there should be little more than a heat haze coming out of your chimney.

It's all a bit of a minefield to be honest - but as long as there are not clouds of smoke churning out of your chimney, you're unlikely to raise many eyebrows. Don't quote me on that though - as some people have nothing better to do!

Bit of a list here you could have a look at - and no doubt there'll be more besides. http://www.smokecontrolareas.co.uk/smokeless-zone-stoves.php

Cheers,

Andy

alleycat`

Pretty much what the others have already said.
It only needs to be exempt if you want to burn wood in the stove (most stoves are either wood or smokeless fuel anyway).
If you want to burn smokeless fuel then it doesn't need the defra exemption.

On most stoves the "exemption" basically comes down to the manufacturers artificially reducing the amount you can close one of the air vents (and that is about it).

I'm looking at defra exempt stoves myself although more at the "6kw nominal" range.

What sort of budget and look are you going for?
I might be able to help as i've put quite a few miles into this wheel already and i'm still not 100% convinced about what i want either

highrisklowreturn

I got a 6kw waterford stanley oisin - theyre made in China but are a good stove. Highly recommended over here, and does what it says on the tin. It's max heat output is actually 8.4 with coal, and at its lowest 3.4 with turf.

kats53

Wow! thanks for all your input. I have found all your posts really interesting and thought provoking. One thing I have found after reading is that I definitely can't wait to have one installed!
As you point out as long as I burn smokeless fuel (which I would) I'll be ok. Now that gives me more scope as there is more choice.
One other thing, how do you rate cast iron against steel?
I know that cast iron is slower to heat up but retains the heat and steel heats up quickly but also loses the heat quickly. I think I am drawn more to cast iron. What are your personal preferences?
My budget by the way is aout £700 to £750. I'd love to get one cheaper of course, however I know you get what you pay for and I have to budget for installing which costs quite a lot.

welda

highrisklowreturn wrote: »

Stoves are beautiful and the more I look at my £370 6kw Chinese job the more I consider it my best ever investment. The heat from coal can be terrific, it cheers me up, it often distracts me from TV, I read about 2 hours a night now with it glowing in the background whereas my reading had died away before, I stay much fitter chopping wood which is enjoyable - it was Kaiser Wilhelm's favourite activity in retirement - I know my coalman, I use a fuel source for which there is plentiful supply but vastly reduced demand, I can 'recycle' about 50% of all letters, cardboard, wood etc I used to bin, I free up space by not having as much rubbish, I'm the envy of friends, family and neighbours, I can get an unlimited wood supply in Belfast when the bonfire season starts, kindle costs nothing, my home actually feels like a home and not a place one eats ready meals and sleeps in between working hours, it adds ambience and looks great with strategic candle lighting, I can buy fuel for as little as £3 for logs, £5.50 for 3 days worth of coal, or take unwanted wood off others, as opposed to worrying if my oil tank's running out, or if Russia is about to invade the Ukraine sending my gas price through the roof, or if the Libyan rebels are all nutters a la Back to the Future 1 who will drive the oil prices ever higher, or if I need to wait till pay day or save massively to afford enough fuel for one night, I buy coal from a British mine keeping jobs in the UK, I circulate stale air out of the living room helping reduce a damp problem behind a book case, I heat my chimney breast so the living room is cosy in the morning without my having to wait 40 minutes for oil/gas radiators to heat up, I can leave coal in overnight, which still burns red in the morning and is, after a few sticks, ready for another shovel of coal, I can fell my own trees and store the wood, giving a totally free supply, I can gather sticks whilst out walking, I can pick up the wood scrap neighbours leave out for the binmen to dump, scavenge it and toast it etc etc etc

The pious on here will tell you not to do any of this, but the list of reasons to have a stove is too long to mention. The only 'snag' is cleaning up a bit of ash and dust, emptying the ashpan once a day (1 minute), a bit of hoovering, and storing your fuel, having a hearth put in - or making one - and buying a companion set (a tenner).

It's a no brainer.

You forgot to mention it is a good chat up line for the ladies "wanna come back to my place and meet me stove?" *Or get jiggy in front of me stove?"

:beer:

highrisklowreturn

kats53 wrote: »

Wow! thanks for all your input. I have found all your posts really interesting and thought provoking. One thing I have found after reading is that I definitely can't wait to have one installed!
As you point out as long as I burn smokeless fuel (which I would) I'll be ok. Now that gives me more scope as there is more choice.
One other thing, how do you rate cast iron against steel?
I know that cast iron is slower to heat up but retains the heat and steel heats up quickly but also loses the heat quickly. I think I am drawn more to cast iron. What are your personal preferences?
My budget by the way is aout £700 to £750. I'd love to get one cheaper of course, however I know you get what you pay for and I have to budget for installing which costs quite a lot.

You've identified the main issue - it's your choice as to which is the most effective for what you need. I only have experience of cast iron - and it feels more natural as a stove material and so is part of the ambiance.

I got my chimney ok'd for £80. Stove was £370. Installation was £230 - and should have been maybe £380 (£100 for register plate above stove, the thing that keeps the heat in, and say £50 to install this which is fair). If there arn't any issues with your chimney during smoke test and it is clean and open at the top then you shouldn't need a liner. Just bung the stove pipe from the stove up the chimney and seal with fire proof cement and fire resistant rope.

As to getting what you pay for don't be fooled by people telling you that cheap is bad. Read the reviews on this site, http://www.whatstove.co.uk/ , including those for the one I have, and have a read through http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055394080&page=40 , which is an Irish site from start to finish. All I can say is that my "crappy" Chinese stove chucks out the heat and two nights ago I had to go commando. If I had had a register plate fitted it would be hotter than the Sahara. If you read completely through that site you will read of people having the same stove, the Stanley Oisin (£370), since the 1990s and still burning on it.

If you read of some of the top European brands on whatstove, such as the franco belge savoy (£950) you'll read reviews of people complaining of how crap the design is.

Greenfires

I don't really think there's a lot to choose between the two materials, though of course cast iron is handy if you want fancy details on the stove body. There's a fairly common misconception that steel stoves are lower quality I think - but some of the best on the market are steel bodied - so it can't be all bad! With the sort of money you're looking at spending you should get a good quality unit in whichever material you end up going for.

Cheers,

Andy

kats53

Thanks again guys, I had finally decided on a cast iron stove, however after trawling through the sites on the internet most of the stoves I like are made from steel! Now I'm back to square one trying to decide! LOL

Jen