top up fees

Old_Git

my aunt may have to move into a residential home at some stage .
I went to look at a home today and it is £441 per week including £15 top up fee ,which has to be paid by a third party (me) . My aunt has no children but has several thousand in the bank .Is there any way she will be allowed to pay this herself .

dzug1

I think she has to give it to you for you to pay

Pollycat

Old Git
you might find Guide #17 (if you are in England) useful:

http://www.counselandcare.org.uk/finding-and-paying-for-a-care-home

I've read quite a few of the Counsel & Care guides, but I've not read this one as it wasn't appropriate to our situation.

I think you might need to consider what will happen if your Aunt needs to move to a different care home in the future which is more expensive (but don't quote me on that).

Our County Council were pretty much on-the-ball with Dad's financial assessment but I understand from other posts I've read that this isn't always the case.

Trebor16

Not another top up fee con by social services!

The issue with top up fees is simple. Top up fees can only be asked for if social services say home A is suitable for your aunt and you say that it is not and you want her to go into home b, which is more expensive. You would have to pay a top up in those circumstances.

If the local authority have an upper limit and no home is available within that bracket which is suitable and it is necessary to put your aunt in a more expensive home then the local autority have to meet the additional cost.

Take a look at these links for more info:-

http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=125

A thread from the Alzheimer's Society forum:-

http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/showthread.php?33395-Dont-be-forced-into-paying-a-care-home-top-up-please-read

The other document to read is CRAG (Charging for Residential Accomodation Guide) which is the local authority bible on charging for residential accomodation.

http://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/documents/digitalasset/dh_125836.pdf

The important figures for savings are £23250 and £14000. If there are savings or other assets above the first figure then your aunt will be classed as a self funder. If assets drop below this figure then the local authority have to start to assist. Once savings drop to £14000 then the local authority will have to contribute much more.

However, any income such as pensions will be taken leaving your aunt with a paltry £22.50 per week.

You haven't mentioned if there is any property owned by your aunt as this could be important.

But I will say this only once:D You do not have to pay top up fees if your aunt needs a more expensive home that is above the LA's upper limit. Note if she "needs" it. The LA have to pay for the home if it is above their limit and it is the only one that will meet her needs.

You will only have to pay them if you chose a home that is more expensive than offered and the offered home is suitable, or if you insist on a more expensive room with a scenic view. They can ask for top ups then.

Do not sign any agreements under any circumstances other wise you will be stuck with paying the top ups.

Torry_Quine

For a start that is a very low fee for a care home. How much savings does she have as if she has over £23,000 then she will be liable for the full amount. If less then all her pension less a small amount and a small amount from her capital will have to be paid. I can't really help on top up fees as in my experience has never come up.

Pollycat

Torry_Quine wrote: »

For a start that is a very low fee for a care home. How much savings does she have as if she has over £23,000 then she will be liable for the full amount. If less then all her pension less a small amount and a small amount from her capital will have to be paid. I can't really help on top up fees as in my experience has never come up.

Maybe it depends where you live.

We paid (slightly) less than that per week for my Dad in a home that accepts people with Dementia.

They were marvellous and he was very happy there for the short time he was in.

I guess we need the OP to clarify what 'several thousands in the bank' really means and if she owns any property.

Torry_Quine

Pollycat wrote: »

Maybe it depends where you live.

We paid (slightly) less than that per week for my Dad in a home that accepts people with Dementia.

They were marvellous and he was very happy there for the short time he was in.

I guess we need the OP to clarify what 'several thousands in the bank' really means and if she owns any property.

Gosh , that does surprise me. The home my relative is in was charging over £600 per week when they went in over 6 years ago and that's after the 'free care'. Much more now I would imagine but as you can imagine savings are long since gone. No top-up fees though.

Old_Git

£600 per week is nursing home fees here . This is not nursing home it is for people with moderate dementia

Single Person Accommodation
En-suite bathroom facilities
24 hour care services
Registered with RQ&IA as a residential Care Facility


Further Information
1 bedroom, 1 person apartment
Weekly Charge: £441 all inclusive. (this includes the £15 topup )
My aunt has £40,000 & a house .

Pollycat

Old_Git wrote: »

£600 per week is nursing home fees here . This is not nursing home it is for people with moderate dementia

Single Person Accommodation
En-suite bathroom facilities
24 hour care services
Registered with RQ&IA as a residential Care Facility


Further Information
1 bedroom, 1 person apartment
Weekly Charge: £441 all inclusive. (this includes the £15 topup )
My aunt has £40,000 & a house .

So (imho) a fair bit more than 'several thousand in the bank'.

People have to fully fund their own care home fees if they have capital over £23,250 - that is not just savings, it includes property (how much depends on who else is living there/has a financial interest).

When the council do their financial assessment (you can choose not to have this but they will assume if you don't you have more than £23,250 anyway), they will say what income (pensions, benefits) they will take towards the weekly fees and the person in the care home pays the rest.

Top-up fees apply when the person in the care home has insufficent money to pay the full fees personally and the weekly fee is more than the amount the Council will pay.

So top-up fees don't apply to your Aunt at all.
She can choose to stay in the most expensive care home in the UK - her money will pay for whatever it costs.

With £40K in the bank and a house, your Aunt doesn't come into this category so who gave you the information about you having to pay top-up fees?

I suggest you follow the link I gave you to the Counsel & Care website and start reading up about:
Paying for a Care Home
Deprivation of Capital (to attempt to avoid paying care home fees). Choosing to sell you house to pay for care home fees
Choosing not to sell your home to pay for care home fees

Trebor16

Old_Git wrote: »

£600 per week is nursing home fees here . This is not nursing home it is for people with moderate dementia

Single Person Accommodation
En-suite bathroom facilities
24 hour care services
Registered with RQ&IA as a residential Care Facility


Further Information
1 bedroom, 1 person apartment
Weekly Charge: £441 all inclusive. (this includes the £15 topup )
My aunt has £40,000 & a house .

On her savings alone she would be regarded as a self funder. With regards to the house if she is living alone then that will be taken into account, assuming she is the sole owner of the house. There is a 12 week property disregard in relation to the property and this is detailed in CRAG.

The only other angle is the health of your Aunt. If she has primary health needs then the NHS should be involved and should pay her costs. But they fight hard to avoid their legal responsibilities and try and fob off people and say their needs are social care needs.

It all depends on your Aunt's needs.

monkeyspanner

The only circumstance when top-up fees would be relevant to a potential self-funder would be during the 12 week disregard period. 12 week disregard is only relevant if savings other than the property are under £23250. In this circumstance I believe the resident can pay the top-up themselves. Otherwise they cannot and it has to be paid for by a 3rd party.