Should the UK leave the EU poll

schneckster

vickylouise,

There is one major problem to your view. The information on which they make the bulk of their decisions is in the public domain. Debates in the Commons are minuted in the Hansard, and debates in the European Parliament are also minuted in something similar, not to mention tv cameras. Additionally, the white papers and other reports are all publicly available. There is very little information that they have access to that we don't... except for the deals that go on behind closed doors and the dodgy thoughts inside their heads.

But it is easy to see from the sort of information available that the politicians are being disingenuous. No-one in their right mind would stay in a club that was constantly accused of corruption or wasteful spending of members money, let alone one that hasn't had it's accounts approved ever. And yet that's what our politicians are asking us to do.

The information that is available straight from the horse's mouth shows that the UK's interests are not best served by being in the EU. It is wasteful and corrupt, overly expensive for what we get back, and it is, despite what they say, eroding the primacy of Westminster to unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.

And yet you wish to trust the politicians when they say it is in our best interests because they know what they're doing and they know more than us, despite information showing that they either don't or don't care?

It is this blind trust of your's that they rely on to serve their own interests instead of ours. They are public servants using our money. Saying they know best will not work when I see my taxes going down the drain on dictats from the EU and available information shows that it cannot be justified.

You can have blind trust of the people in power if you like. Me, I think I'll keep my eyes, ears and mind open, and make sure they know they're being watched. That way, the power just might not corrupt them absolutely.

Schneckster

robin_banks

Should we leave the EU ?. No

Should we re-negotiate the terms of our membership ?. Yes, but not at the moment.

Should the scope of the EU be scaled back ?. Absolutely.

rickbonar

worldwheeler wrote: »

The cost is to the social cohesion of the country. This matters not a jot to the corporate gubberment that perfectly understand it when they enact free access or transfer of cheap labour markets for their owners. They rely on it as it sets in place the divide and conquer mentality which steers any public critical questioning away from the ruling ellite.

perfectly illustrated by

It is not the gubberments it is the foreigners, oh please! You have more in common with a Pole, Eastern European or Muslim than with CEO's and gobberment ministers who attend the bilderberg secret meetings to decide your future as a slave, a fool or a corpse.

Meet the neighbours, they are just like you, trying to understand and survive in a slave environment designed over the 99%, by the 1%, for the 1%.

I agree that the policy of importing cheap labour is indeed at an immense cost to social cohesion...and housing resources...

yet there is little need for this happen Mr Dyson discovered when Swindon Borough council refused him permission for a factory.. it forced his hand to open several factories in the far east... he found he could pay them a quarter of what he would here and the productivity was higher and cost far lower... he went on to close all his UK based factories..
I think he’s been eternally grateful for their decision!

“Meet the neighbours”... look, I don't mind my neighbours popping for a cup of tea and a chat... but I do not want them moving into my house permanently and first treating me like the guest then slinging me out of my own property and taking it as theirs...

And to my mind that's a metaphor for what's been happening to Britain in the last 50 years.

Some would say too perhaps we ought to have a referendum on Islam, and why isn’t the law on blasphemy being administered for this some say: odious false religion?

schneckster

robin_banks wrote: »

Should we leave the EU ?. No

Should we re-negotiate the terms of our membership ?. Yes, but not at the moment.

Should the scope of the EU be scaled back ?. Absolutely.

How on earth can we renegotiate? It would take treaty amendments and new treaties which require the agreement of the other 26 states. I can't see us getting that.

And of course, what defines successful renegotiation? And what if the EU either refuse to renegotiate or decide we can't have what we want?

And if they did, what's to say they won't do what they always do... give in now, and then take it back in a few years time?

And why not now? When?

Margaret Thatcher negotiated the UK rebate as part of negotiations for a treaty in the 80's. As part of treaty negotiations earlier in this century, Tony Blair gave some of it back.

Renegotiation is a fallacy. It simply will not happen. We may get better terms as a price for UK agreement on new treaties or changes, but those terms will get clawed back by the EU in the future. They always do. And that assumes the government will even try, which they say they won't.

It's either in or out. Renegotiation is a red herring that is not, in reality, practicable.

Schneckster

martinthebandit

Oh look


https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/20133

Paul_Herring

martinthebandit wrote: »

Oh look


https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/20133

As someone on t'interwebs said - we should play them at their own game[1] - keep asking until we get the answer we want...


[1]:

[on Ireland and the Lisbon Treaty] We all have this horrible feeling that we will be made to do this referendum over and over again until we return the answer they want

worldwheeler

rickbonar wrote: »

“Meet the neighbours”... look, I don't mind my neighbours popping for a cup of tea and a chat... but I do not want them moving into my house permanently and first treating me like the guest then slinging me out of my own property and taking it as theirs...
And to my mind that's a metaphor for what's been happening to Britain in the last 50 years.

So it is the fault of the people who have moved here for work? or is it the SYSTEM, EU, that allows corporations access to the cheapest labour. Why move your factory when you can get the monkeys to up sticks and move! This IS the divide your enemy, and prosper from the "race to the bottom" that the workers can be made to dance to before turning on each other.

rickbonar wrote: »

Some would say too perhaps we ought to have a referendum on Islam, and why isn’t the law on blasphemy being administered for this some say: odious false religion?

Do you think laws should be made on religious grounds? Religion, or belief, are not true or odious false! They are, geographical.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/ca861703b8/religion-from-danny

wozearly

Wykey wrote: »

Should there ever be a referendum, is there any way of making sure that people without a full and even-handed understanding of both sides of the argument are precluded from voting?

Yes, one very simple method. Not holding a referendum in the first place. :cool:

The problem is that there's no way of really knowing which argument is right. And even if one was right today, it might have been completely wrong for the past five years and might be wrong again for the next fifty.

We'll never really know...

Lizling

Wykey wrote: »

Should there ever be a referendum, is there any way of making sure that people without a full and even-handed understanding of both sides of the argument are precluded from voting?

There is one way. Get the tabloids to advertise a different voting date, then anyone who believes what they read in the Daily Mail will miss out.

callum9999

I'm not a fan of referendums because by and large (I'm sure most people posting here aren't!) the general public are either idiots or completely ignorant on almost every important matter.

Be honest, how many people who chose "The UK should only be in a free-trade relationship and not be bound to/impact on wider policies" have the slightest idea what impact it will have on industry, how much money we'd save, what areas of the country will suffer from scrapped investment etc. etc. I can guarantee the majority just went "that seems ok" and clicked it.