Should the UK leave the EU poll

Former_MSE_Penelope

Should the UK leave the EU

Poll started 25 Oct 2011, click here to vote

MPs have voted against having a referendum on Europe, so we've decided to do our own...

Which of these is closest to your view?

The UK should leave the EU
The UK should only be in a free-trade relationship and not be bound to/impact on wider policies
The UK should remain an EU member under the current terms
The UK should integrate further
The UK should integrate further and adopt the euro
I’m undecided
I don't know/ don't care



Click reply to discuss

rrpescott

Can we have an option:
I trust my democratically elected body, who have more knowledge and understanding, to make the correct decisions about our position in Europe.

thingybobby

I think most of us are outraged by the way our our own independence has been bludgeoned by the EU and the way British officials "over interpret" many of the restrictions placed upon us? We need to take control of our own lawmaking again, whilst retaining free trading links, without the huge financial contributions we have to make. I know that we've received European funding for many regeneration projects, but how many have been sustainable?

elisebutt65

The main problem seems to be the way that in Britain, we take on board and act on the legislation, whereas when (personally) we go abroad, we see much of this (esp H & S ) legislation ignored. Anyone seen scaffolding rigs in France Spain or Greece recently? Or the way that the legislation is interpreted wrongly here by overzealous councils.

Financially, being in the Eurozone, could be a good thing, if only Britain didn't have to contribute so much! I was watching the news on Midlands Today and apparently it costs us over £35 billion a year?*(is that right? Seems excessive) But the presenter was raving how Europe has contributed £65 million for regeneration, to the Midlands area. Seems a bit of a poor investment to me. Cant we use the billions we send to Europe and invest it here instead?

rrpescott

Teddyco, I do understand your point of view and wish I was brave enough to share it. I'm just pessimistic about the ability of our population as a whole to make judgement based on good understanding of the issues and not bigoted paranoia fueled by agenda-driven press...

schneckster

This poll has actually surprised me. At the time of writing this post, it was 30% in favour of leaving, and 46% in favour of a free trade arrangement.

In actual fact, both are the same. The statement that being in the EU gives us access to a large free trade area is a myth. This so called free trade area costs us billions every year and we still have a trade deficit with it. Plus the impact it has on fisheries, agriculture and a huge number of other things.

Norway and Switzerland are both outside of the EU but have trade arrangements with the EU that are better than our's. Shouldn't that be what we're aiming for?

We cannot get anything like the deals Norway, Switzerland, or other non-EU countries get whilst we're in the EU. It would require treaty negotiations that would then need agreement from the other 26 states... you really think that would happen?

And if we did leave, do not be fooled into thinking that we would lose trade with the EU. We buy far more than we sell (£34.9billion trade deficit) so we'd still be important trading partners. World Trade Organisation rules, to which the EU has signed, state that there can be no tariff blocks raised on individual countries and Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty states that the EU must pursue fair trade terms with any country wishing to leave the EU.

Exports are another misleading item. UK export figures are skewed by the "Dutch Effect". A good amount exports from the UK that go outside of the EU, land in Holland first before going on to their final destination. And yet, because of this, they are counted as exports to the EU rather than exports elsewhere.

In the last referendum in 1975, the public feeling was to stay out of it. But the government at the time very successfully used the fear of reduced jobs and trade as a way of changing minds. However, it was a fallacy then, and it is even more a fallacy now.

If and when a referendum comes, we the public need to be properly educated on the facts otherwise the politicians will win by confusing us with semantics. Renegotiation simply will not happen and we'll still be where we are in decades to come... wasting money instead of using it wisely.

Cheers,

Schneckster

Coveredinbees!!!!

rrpescott wrote: »

Can we have an option:
I trust my democratically elected body, who have more knowledge and understanding, to make the correct decisions about our position in Europe.

We could but who does.

schneckster

rrpescott wrote: »

Can we have an option:
I trust my democratically elected body, who have more knowledge and understanding, to make the correct decisions about our position in Europe.

Expenses scandal?
People's Pledge (pledged to vote for an EU referendum and then didn't)?
Tuition Fees?

Need I say more?

I think the only thing you can trust a politician to do is be a bit economical with facts when it comes to re-election!

Besides, these days, most of them have never held a proper job so chances are many of us have more experience of the things you list than they do.

Schneckster

Wykey

Should there ever be a referendum, is there any way of making sure that people without a full and even-handed understanding of both sides of the argument are precluded from voting?

Sceptic001

schneckster wrote: »

In the last referendum in 1975, the public feeling was to stay out of it. But the government at the time very successfully used the fear of reduced jobs and trade as a way of changing minds. However, it was a fallacy then, and it is even more a fallacy now.

If and when a referendum comes, we the public need to be properly educated on the facts otherwise the politicians will win by confusing us with semantics. Renegotiation simply will not happen and we'll still be where we are in decades to come... wasting money instead of using it wisely.

A brilliant analysis by schneckster.

Our politicians lied to us in the 1975 referendum and we foolishly believed them. The original Treaty of Rome made quite clear that the objective was ever-closer union, but Heath, Wilson et al convinced us that we were joining a simple common market.

We are more sceptical now and will not make the same mistake again.

sarahemmm

I understand and agree with all those who have commented on the short to medium term problems. But, looking at the longer term, I think we have to join into a larger nation group (whether EU or something else is immaterial) if we don't wish to be wholly controlled by corporations. Their power is already enormous, and it is growing daily. Yes, the larger the state, the slower the decision making. But I would prefer that to no-decision making because the governement has been told what to do by a small number of mega corporations. I can't get all misty eyed over sovereignty and 'the British pound' when so much more is at stake.