white horse's wet dream

Cleaver

Road_Hog wrote: »

I'll dig up the example if I can find it, but councils are cutting frontline services (headline) like elderly care homes, which make the headlines, whilst employing more people like E&D co-ordinators.

Would you mind finding the example? I can't imagine many public sector organisations taking on non-essential backroom staff whilst cutting frontline services.

Road_Hog

Cleaver wrote: »

Would you mind finding the example? I can't imagine many public sector organisations taking on non-essential backroom staff whilst cutting frontline services.

Here's the article, it doesn't specifically mention hiring more back room staff, but it shows that no back room staff have been cut whilst front line cuts have, but you can read between the lines. I'll paste a few specifics to focus on, but you need to read the whole article.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8365463/Death-by-a-thousand-cuts.html

"Last week, in rowdy scenes, Haringey voted to close four residential care homes and six old people's day centres"

But they still have plenty of money for this,

"In December alone, Haringey also paid £323,000 to a rainbow coalition of race or gender interest groups,"

That's just in one month, the six OAP day centres will only save £415,000 over three years. I bet there's a few E&D staff in there in the rainbow coalition.

"In 2009-10, the last year for which full accounts are available, Haringey spent £243 million"

Even after the latest cuts, its own budget documents state that it will be spending £286 million on the general fund 2010-11. This appears to be a rise of £43 million, substantially ahead of inflation.

So, they're spending more, not less, it doesn't seem to be going on front line services, so where is it going?

It's called the bleeding stump strategy and it's political and that comes back to my earlier comment, councils have become politicised, which is wrong. They should be politically neutral.

Ilya_Ilyich

Road_Hog wrote: »

You Marxists are all the same. I make a comment about cutting the bloated public sector that we can't afford and you equate it to racism. The standard Lefty socialists response, try to tar the opponent to end any debate.

“The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money.”

And that's what has happened.

I thought it was interesting that your #1 priority would be to tackle the problem of diversity. Quite why pointing this out makes me a marxist socialist communist who wants to steal all your hard-earned monies I'm not sure.

Road_Hog wrote: »

There are many other jobs like that, where the needs of the minority are put over the needs of the majority. The real problems are also that councils and other public sectors have become politicised, which is very wrong. I'll dig up the example if I can find it, but councils are cutting frontline services (headline) like elderly care homes, which make the headlines, whilst employing more people like E&D co-ordinators.

*snip*

There's a good video on Youtube that shows the growing size of the public sector, it was something like 10% at the turn of the last century, it is now about 52%.

..and the quality of life has clearly declined terribly in that time, right?

We live in an incredibly rich country and could easily afford to pay for these basic services for our citizens. Blaming public-sector workers for receiving decent pensions or councils for trying to work against the systemic racism that exists in our country is simply biting down on red herrings.

A._Badger

Ilya_Ilyich wrote: »

We live in an incredibly rich country and could easily afford to pay for these basic services for our citizens. Blaming public-sector workers for receiving decent pensions or councils for trying to work against the systemic racism that exists in our country is simply biting down on red herrings.

Wrong. We are broke precisely because of this sort of manifest idiocy - very much including those public sector non-jobs created to further the political ends of unelected cultural Marxists. And Road Hog was quite right to call you on your predictable war cry of 'Racism!'.

The card has been played too often. It's worn out.

Road_Hog

Ilya_Ilyich wrote: »

I thought it was interesting that your #1 priority would be to tackle the problem of diversity. Quite why pointing this out makes me a marxist socialist communist who wants to steal all your hard-earned monies I'm not sure.

Partly using the same absurd logic you used to brand me a racist for wanting budget cuts and partly because it is a tactic of the left to try to shout down any opposition by labelling them either racist or fascist.

Just for you comrade.

grizzly1911

Road_Hog wrote: »

“The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money.”

And that's what has happened.

The trouble is Governments of all persuasions have been selling assets, mortgaging assets, encouraging Jo Bloggs to mortgage themselves and there is nothing left now the state has tried to underpin it all with nothing of substance. They have all raised taxes as it is the easiest option. The problem is the volume of tax payers rather than the individual rates. Despite transferring tax from income to consumption to mask the problems that tax is falling.

The train has been rolling down hill for decades when it hit the buffers was just a matter of timing.

The national debt is like a balloon. Unless you take something out it will not go down. At the moment it is being squeezed in one direction but it will just pop out somewhere else. It doesn't help that the balloon continues to inflate as the nation grows.

A few mad ideas have been canned but there are many other things that are just out of our league these days IMO, wars and foreign aid spring to mind, leave those moral dilemmas to the countries with the where with all.

grizzly1911

Cleaver wrote: »

I love this idea that the NHS is made up of wonderful clinicians on the one side and suit wearing managers on the other. The past twenty years has seen each clinical body, whether that's doctors, nurses, physios, radiographers, pharmacists or anyone else, pushing and screaming for more advanced roles in their profession. Basically, every profession in the clinical side of the NHS has 'professionalised' their staff.

When you see someone with their 'clipboard and suit' in the NHS it could very well be a former radiographer who has now been appointed as a 'Radiographer Patient Pathway Manager' and has been appointed in to that role by the Radiography department who are busy creating management roles for their former clinical staff. This happens in nursing and all other professions too. Don't get me wrong, the NHS is management heavy. But it's managers in all areas, clinical and non-clinical. Have a look at any trust and see how many nurse managers they have (i.e. trained nurses who have moved in to nursing management positions) compared to straight nurses and I bet you'll be shocked.

As an aside, having worked in the NHS I only ever saw nurses and doctors with clipboards as they often use them for patient notes.

I accept what you say I know what you mean, rather looking a layer or to above that.

For clip boards perhaps laptops in trolley cases or IPADS;)

Ilya_Ilyich

Road_Hog wrote: »

Partly using the same absurd logic you used to brand me a racist for wanting budget cuts and partly because it is a tactic of the left to try to shout down any opposition by labelling them either racist or fascist.

I didn't brand you a racist for wanting budget cuts. I suggested there may be racial motivations behind your number one priority being to get rid of positions designed to promote diversity. Where marxism or fascism comes into that I'm not sure.

A._Badger wrote: »

Wrong. We are broke precisely because of this sort of manifest idiocy - very much including those public sector non-jobs created to further the political ends of unelected cultural Marxists. And Road Hog was quite right to call you on your predictable war cry of 'Racism!'.

The card has been played too often. It's worn out.

So are you saying racism isn't a problem because you're bored of hearing about it? Or just that we shouldn't bother about it because it's more important to secure comfortable lives for those who've benefited from it?

Road_Hog

Ilya_Ilyich wrote: »

I didn't brand you a racist for wanting budget cuts. I suggested there may be racial motivations behind your number one priority being to get rid of positions designed to promote diversity. Where marxism or fascism comes into that I'm not sure.

You find racism where none exists. Marxists like you are akin to McCarthyist which hunts, you try to silence people by calling them racists and try to build in a fear that no one will argue back for fear of having the racist tag hung on them.

It doesn't work with me, so take your Frankfurt School and communitarian methods elsewhere.

A._Badger

Ilya_Ilyich wrote: »

I didn't brand you a racist for wanting budget cuts. I suggested there may be racial motivations behind your number one priority being to get rid of positions designed to promote diversity. Where marxism or fascism comes into that I'm not sure.



So are you saying racism isn't a problem because you're bored of hearing about it? Or just that we shouldn't bother about it because it's more important to secure comfortable lives for those who've benefited from it?

I'm saying you and your ilk are race-hustlers: massively overstating the problem so as to foster grievance and disquiet which you use to build a power base.