sent home from work in the night

hook

some advice needed please... i was on night shift tonight started at 22.00 was due to finish at 7 in the morning but i had a bit of a row with the deputy shift manager who is on the same pay grade as me and after another problem he called me in the office. i told him that if he wanted to speak to me i wanted a witness so i bought in a member of staff. instead of doing this behind closed doors in private he said front of other staff he said he was sending me home for refusing to follow managment orders. i asked him what orders did i refuse but he wouldnt say. ok fine i will go but it was nearly midnight and i wanted to phone my fella to come and collect me. but he kept shouting that i had to leave the work place. so basically i was forced to leave and go home i started walking home and i was met halfway. my problem is even though he did probably have the right to send me home did he also have the right to force me to walk home at that time of night. i didn't have my bus fare as its common knowledge that i always walk to and from work unless i finish on a late shift at 10pm when i am collected. it was also bloody raining so i got soaked. i thought he would still have a duty of care...

paddedjohn

putting aside what went on between you and your supervisor whilst you were in work, i cant see legally how it would be upto them to ensure you got home ok even though i believe they should have at least let you call a friend

SarEl

I would agree. It doesn't matter what pay grade the deputy shift manager is on - they are the deputy shift manager and you are not.You were the one who refused to speak to him provately after having a row - you had no right to a witness - so you have no real basis for claiming he should have spoken to you in provate when you refused to do so in the first place. It was a reasonable management instruction / reuest for him to make and you refused. It might have been "nice" to have allowed you to make arrangments to get home, but the employer isn't technically responsible for your arrangements or for allowing you to make them. There is no duty of care for you when you are not in work, and since you had been sent home there is no responsibility for you once you have been told to leave the premises. It may not have been sensible, but I can't see how it is unlawful.

ceridwen

Actually - I dont know about rights to speak provately/privately - but, in my workplace, I seem to remember we are covered by insurance provisions whilst on our way to and from work (ie as well as whilst we are actually at work).

I think the gist of it is the Union's solicitors can get involved in claiming compensation for us outside work if we are involved in an accident - IF we are, at that time, on our way to and from work.

From this - I rather wonder whether a "duty of care" does indeed extend to a workers personal safety in other respects whilst commuting to/from work. My feeling is that it would (even before we start going into the fact that it was night-time and OP is a woman).

Have we got a Union official here who can give a view on this? OhReally for instance - are you there lad?

SarEl

ceridwen wrote: »

Actually - I dont know about rights to speak provately/privately - but, in my workplace, I seem to remember we are covered by insurance provisions whilst on our way to and from work (ie as well as whilst we are actually at work).

I think the gist of it is the Union's solicitors can get involved in claiming compensation for us outside work if we are involved in an accident - IF we are, at that time, on our way to and from work.

From this - I rather wonder whether a "duty of care" does indeed extend to a workers personal safety in other respects whilst commuting to/from work. My feeling is that it would (even before we start going into the fact that it was night-time and OP is a woman).

Have we got a Union official here who can give a view on this? OhReally for instance - are you there lad?

If your employer insures you for events to and from work that is very unusual, but tbh this sounds more like something that is a union matter and nothing to do with the employer. There is certainly no duty of care to the employee in relation to their commute. I agree that common sense would suggest that the circumstances might have been handled more sensibly, but legally the duty of care in this matter ended the moment the employee was told to leave the premises. The employer has no responsibility for the "commute".

Emmzi

Never heard of employer having duties outside the workplace. Bit nanny state for me. Never seen it in a contract either. Or on the government website.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/HealthAndSafetyAtWork/DG_4016686

lemontart

why did op not call from o/s premises and wait there rather than start walking, just curious, yes the manager should have spoken to you in private - poor judgement on their part there but as for your travel arrangements all that concerns an employer is that you are able to get there on time regardless of gender.

Sambucus_Nigra

lemontart wrote: »

why did op not call from o/s premises and wait there rather than start walking, just curious, yes the manager should have spoken to you in private - poor judgement on their part there but as for your travel arrangements all that concerns an employer is that you are able to get there on time regardless of gender.

Whilst I agree that the employer doesn't have any duty of care after telling a staff member to leave the premises; we ALL have duties under the Health and Safety at Work act, and any human who sends a staff member to walk home at midnight without giving them the ability to call for a lift could be said not to have been taking their H&S into account.

The first duty of the Act says '
(1)It shall be the duty of every employer to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the health, safety and welfare at work of all his employees.'



Note, it doesn't say 'in the workplace'. I think it could be argued that it is reasonably practicable to allow an employee to wait on the premises for their lift to arrive. Unless, that is, they themselves are a risk to other employees.

I fully expect a million and one people to object to this post; however as an employer I'd never have let a staff member, let alone a female one, leave work at midnight and walk home. Even if they had been a right royal PITA.

Hootie19

hook wrote: »

i wanted to phone my fella to come and collect me. but he kept shouting that i had to leave the work place. so basically i was forced to leave and go home i started walking home and i was met halfway.

I assume therefore that you had a mobile to be able to let someone know to come and meet you? So as asked above, why didn't you call them and just wait outside the premises for them to pick you up? You took responsibility fo your own safety when you chose to start to walk.

Oldernotwiser

hook wrote: »

some advice needed please... i was on night shift tonight started at 22.00 was due to finish at 7 in the morning but i had a bit of a row with the deputy shift manager who is on the same pay grade as me and after another problem he called me in the office. i told him that if he wanted to speak to me i wanted a witness so i bought in a member of staff. instead of doing this behind closed doors in private he said front of other staff he said he was sending me home for refusing to follow managment orders. i asked him what orders did i refuse but he wouldnt say. ok fine i will go but it was nearly midnight and i wanted to phone my fella to come and collect me. but he kept shouting that i had to leave the work place. so basically i was forced to leave and go home i started walking home and i was met halfway. my problem is even though he did probably have the right to send me home did he also have the right to force me to walk home at that time of night. i didn't have my bus fare as its common knowledge that i always walk to and from work unless i finish on a late shift at 10pm when i am collected. it was also bloody raining so i got soaked. i thought he would still have a duty of care...

I don't really understand what was the difference between your walking to work at 2200 and walking home from work at 2400.

dickydonkin

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

I don't really understand what was the difference between your walking to work at 2200 and walking home from work at 2400.

I think we would all agree that it would be safer walking before 10:00pm than after midnight.

As for the duty of care outside of the workplace - there is a precedent but just cannot find the information - but it related to a worker returning from work who was killed as a result of a car accident.

The major contributory factor was fatigue due to the employer allowing the victim to work excessive hours.

In the case of the OP - I wonder if there would potentially be a case of negligence if something happened to the OP after she was told to leave the security of the workplace.

Thankfully, nothing untoward occurred, but if the OP was my wife, I would not be too happy about the situation - and certainly if I was Safety Advisor at that workplace, I would not have allowed a lone female to be placed at risk in the manner she was - irrespective of what her 'offence' was.

Forget about quoting H&S jargon and legislation - common sense should have prevailed here - and it was sadly lacking IMO.

EDIT TO ADD - I found the info I referred to earlier which does indicate that the employer can potentially have a duty of care outside of the workplace and commuting in certain circumstances - not just to employees- but members of the public - as this case demonstrates.

Driver had worked 76 hours in four days
The Produce Connection case
The Produce Connection were fined £30,000 for breaching health and safety legislation as a result of
one of its workers dying in a car crash after working 76 hours in four days. The case was one of the
first of its kind in the UK because The Produce Connection, admitted breaching health and safety
legislation even though the employee died outside working hours.
Mark Fiebig had worked four 19-hour days – starting early in the morning and finishing late at night.
He died when his car drifted into the path of an oncoming lorry as he drove home from work in
October 2002.The court heard that Fiebig was thought to be suffering from ‘chronic fatigue’ and had
fallen asleep at the wheel.
Prosecutor Pascal Bates said Fiebig had worked 11 days without a day off prior to his fatal crash.
During that time he had worked on average 17 hours a day and was getting three to four hours' sleep
a night. Bates said other staff were working similarly long hours.
ISSUES / CONCLUSIONS


Judge Gareth Hawksworth said the company had failed to properly monitor the hours its
employees were working.
The company admitted failing to ensure the health of workers and the public.
Along with the £30,000 fine the company was also ordered to pay £24,000 costs.