German electric storage radiators

Cardew

Fuzzbass2000 wrote: »

Hi - sorry to hijack the thread. I'm also curious about these German Storage Heaters. Lots of companies use the phrase in their advertising blurb.... with the implication that they're made / designed in Germany, with all that brings (vorsprung durch technic.....).

Does anyone know who actually makes the things? Are they some white label for an anonymous German industrial or is it something that's been adopted in the way Hoover = vacuum cleaner or Biro = ink pen?

Cheers

These days it is very difficult to ascertain where any product like this is 'made'.

Is a Toyota 'made' in Derbyshire, a Honda in Swindon, a Nissan in Sunderland, British or Japanese?

Mercedes and VW are manufactured all over the world; are they German?

Fuzzbass2000

Cardew wrote: »

These days it is very difficult to ascertain where any product like this is 'made'.

Is a Toyota 'made' in Derbyshire, a Honda in Swindon, a Nissan in Sunderland, British or Japanese?

Mercedes and VW are manufactured all over the world; are they German?

Maybe I'm asking the wrong question... I guess I'm trying to understand the prominent use of the term German Storage Heater.... and what that implies vs the reality.

Does anyone know who the manufacturer(s) might be for these as opposed to where the manufacturing plant might be?

Sorry if I'm flogging a dead horse....

Cardew

This is the link to a firm who claim to be the sole UK distributors:

https://southwestheatingsolutions.wordpress.com/2012/06/18/german-heating-systems-are-the-best-but-not-all-companies-supplying-them-are-2/

They state their heaters are manufactured by a German firm Elkatherm see

http://en.elkatherm.com/

joe_Burger

I have been thinking about storage radiators of late . I did have them in a flat I rented and because I was working during the day their effectiveness was reduced as heat still escaped while I wasn't there to 'use' it . I was wondering if they could be charged during the day with 'free' solar power and the heat released in the evening rather than the traditional Economy 7 system .
If you could then install a small , unobtrusive , efficient wind generator to produce sufficient power to run your lights / TV / small appliances etc in the evening and night you would be virtually self sufficient in electricity at least .
We also have an unlimited source of logs for a wood burning stove/ fire which would help further .
Is this idea workable ?

victor2

joe_Burger wrote: »

I have been thinking about storage radiators of late . I did have them in a flat I rented and because I was working during the day their effectiveness was reduced as heat still escaped while I wasn't there to 'use' it . I was wondering if they could be charged during the day with 'free' solar power and the heat released in the evening rather than the traditional Economy 7 system .

I think you'll find that solar panels won't give anything like enough power to charge your storage heaters. See how much electricity storage heaters typically use overnight and then see how big an array of panels you'd need to provide that energy during the day.
Also days are quite short in the winter, when you need heating, so you'll have a pretty short time to generate power and it's not likely to be a bright sunny day mid-winter...

Cardew

somesenseforyou wrote: »

but these heaters can be seriously good.

but eventually found heaters and a company we really liked.

What heaters?

How much do they cost?

Do you agree that they give out EXACTLY the same amount of heat, for the same amount of electricity consumed, as the cheapest heater from Argos etc? A simple 'yes' or 'no' will suffice.

electrical_engineer

I feel sorry for the poor electrician, he is likely to be the one that actually knows a little about the german rads and he got slated, unfair.

The German rads really are worth the money provided they are bought from a company that aren't actually double glazing salesmen with a different sign outside the shop. But they need to be installed by a professional with experience of electrical heating not just any idiot spark with a screwdriver.

I have fitted over 7000 of them and was the QS at one of the 2 largest suppliers/ installers in the south of the country, I now work for myself. For the record I am an apprenticeship served Technician graded electrician and I am qualified to do design and consultancy.

I didn't agree with the hard sell commission only "surveyors" who's only training was in sales and worse subcontracting electrical work to the unqualified and unregistered. I even visited one property where the subbie had turned the mains pressure cylinder into a bomb.


Any how German Rads


Good points they are good looking, easily installed, extremely well built and durable dependant on which of the 6 brands you choose.
Unless you are old and can't use a mobile phone get the ones with dual stat programmers (these are more controllable than any other heating appliance available). But not radio links (as they fail a lot I know one company who's own engineers cant program them).
Install and maintenance costs are less than other fuels
You will be warm when you want to be.

They have the highest efficacy out of any heating appliance, All electrical heating is 100% efficient but German rads have massive surface area for heat transfer. For this analogy put your 2kw oven on and a 2kw rad on for an hr in different rooms see which makes you feel comfy they both use 2kwh assuming stats call for heat The programmer keeps different rooms different temps at different times of day. You loose less energy as there is less of a temp gradient between the room and the outside when the room is not needed. most thermostats just call for heat to replace what is lost to the outside this is 100% efficient but low % efficacy as the energy just gets lost to outside.

bad points
Cost, this is relative, you get what you pay for and its only more than other electrical heaters, wet systems ussuallyl cost more.
Like all electrical heaters stats are only guaranteed for 2 yrs and can fail they are replaceable at a cost.

I don't make outlandish claims to running costs as that depends on insulation but on the whole. Running costs are similar to oil, less than LPG and more than mains gas taking servicing into account there good value.

For the record expect to pay about £650-750 for a 2kw radiator fully installed. Perhaps more for distribution.

They are calculated to room volume so if you don't have a full system and want to see if they are any good shut the door- 1 wont heat an entire house.


Most come with a plug on the end to meet EU regs, as a result I see people trying to fit them themselves. They under spec the rad sizes position them badly and overload the electrical system. This plug needs to be cut off straight away BS7671 states a ring main should not be used for comprehensive space heating so they need radial circuits installed by a pro. Old Night storage systems are easily adapted.


For the record I see people spend thousands on heating and don't have a current satisfactory in date electrical installation condition report that was actually completed by a companies qualifying manager. This costs about £200 and is more important an investment than your heating system.

tberry6686

Or in short electrical engineer, buy a cheap oil filled radiator instead and save yourself £6-700

Bainne_Bos

Yes the conversion of electricity to heat is a 100% efficient process. Very good.

If you've a low cost heater convecting heat towards the ceiling, with a thermostat which allows temperature variance of +/-3°C between charging to maintain the required temperature (if you can find it), it won't have the same running costs as an electric radiator that combines radiant heat and has a thermostat which allows a temperature variance of +/-0.2°C.

A night rate storage heater will have relatively high running costs because as it charges through the night on half tariff electricity, it's releasing a large amount of heat, in morning when it's fully charged, the room is much hotter than it needs to be because the bricks are at their hottest. By the evening, it's cooler than it needs to be, and this is generally the time when people require heat. Half rate heat with lots and lots of waste.