Student - JSA, grants, & living with grandparents

birkee

This is an interesting one!
My Grandson sought refuge with us a couple of years ago. We supported him until he was 18 and qualified for JSA, but he kept all that to himself, as he wanted to go to college.

He enrolled in college, and applied for a grant, but the condition was, that he had to provide evidence of the household income to qualify.
Despite the fact that he was over 18, they wanted to know our (Grandparents) income. Reluctantly, I supplied my pension forecast statements for the currrent year, which are supplied at the beginning of each financial year.
This wasn't good enough for them, as they wanted someting less than 3 months old. When informed there wasn't ANYTHING, less than 3 months old, they said that in that case, they needed to see my / our bank statements.
Told them to get stuffed, as there was no way I was going to hand over all my finance details to a college, to be circulated as required, so he got no grant, and we are still supporting him for the next two years.

What I want to know, is how the hell they can make a household responsible for a students finances, when we are not financially responsible for the student? Does that mean, if he lived with a mate, his mate would have to supply details of his income to qualify a student for a grant? If he lived in a bedsit, would the Landlord have to provide evidence of income? It makes no sense to me at all!
He's 19 now, and not MY finacial responsibility.....he's come off JSA, so surely there is a substitute for that?
It doesn't please me one bit, that he's living on my pension, and my Mobility and DLA, and my Wife who has had TWO heart bypasses, is having to do extra work because he lives with us.

It would be really helpfull if anyone could say how this system works.

custardy

birkee wrote: »

This is an interesting one!
My Grandson sought refuge with us a couple of years ago. We supported him until he was 18 and qualified for JSA, but he kept all that to himself, as he wanted to go to college.

He enrolled in college, and applied for a grant, but the condition was, that he had to provide evidence of the household income to qualify.
Despite the fact that he was over 18, they wanted to know our (Grandparents) income. Reluctantly, I supplied my pension forecast statements for the currrent year, which are supplied at the beginning of each financial year.
This wasn't good enough for them, as they wanted someting less than 3 months old. When informed there wasn't ANYTHING, less than 3 months old, they said that in that case, they needed to see my / our bank statements.
Told them to get stuffed, as there was no way I was going to hand over all my finance details to a college, to be circulated as required, so he got no grant, and we are still supporting him for the next two years.

What I want to know, is how the hell they can make a household responsible for a students finances, when we are not financially responsible for the student? Does that mean, if he lived with a mate, his mate would have to supply details of his income to qualify a student for a grant? If he lived in a bedsit, would the Landlord have to provide evidence of income? It makes no sense to me at all!
He's 19 now, and not MY finacial responsibility.....he's come off JSA, so surely there is a substitute for that?
It doesn't please me one bit, that he's living on my pension, and my Mobility and DLA, and my Wife who has had TWO heart bypasses, is having to do extra work because he lives with us.

It would be really helpfull if anyone could say how this system works.

from memory the student would have to demonstrate they had been financially independent for X years(i think 3) up until the age of 21(?)
where family income doesnt come into it
you say he is 19 and came of JSA but isnt your responsibility?
so he is paying full market rate rent and bills yto you then?
because a student in the position you describe would be paying those bills. is it fair your grandson gets the same level of grant?
you failed to meet the college criteria for proof of income so he may have got a grant,but you will never know

birkee

custardy wrote: »

from memory the student would have to demonstrate they had been financially independent for X years(i think 3) up until the age of 21(?)
where family income doesnt come into it
you say he is 19 and came of JSA but isnt your responsibility?
so he is paying full market rate rent and bills yto you then?
because a student in the position you describe would be paying those bills. is it fair your grandson gets the same level of grant?
you failed to meet the college criteria for proof of income so he may have got a grant,but you will never know

Didn't quite understand this.
He's never been financially independant, and has never paid any bills.
He has no income whatsoever now JSA has stopped.

Are you saying he doesn't qualify, but a refugee that doesn't speak English does?

The grant form needs to be filled in by a parent or guardian, and we are neither of those. At 19 he doesn't qualify for a 'guardian' requirement.
How is the householder responsible for HIS finances, if they are neither parent or guardian?

Oldernotwiser

birkee wrote: »

Didn't quite understand this.
He's never been financially independant, and has never paid any bills.
He has no income whatsoever now JSA has stopped.

Are you saying he doesn't qualify, but a refugee that doesn't speak English does?

The grant form needs to be filled in by a parent or guardian, and we are neither of those. At 19 he doesn't qualify for a 'guardian' requirement.
How is the householder responsible for HIS finances, if they are neither parent or guardian?

Surely you claimed Child Benefit and Child Tax Credit (if applicable) for him when he was still in college? You'd still be getting this now if he hadn't left.

custardy

birkee wrote: »

Didn't quite understand this.
He's never been financially independant, and has never paid any bills.
He has no income whatsoever now JSA has stopped.

Are you saying he doesn't qualify, but a refugee that doesn't speak English does?

The grant form needs to be filled in by a parent or guardian, and we are neither of those. At 19 he doesn't qualify for a 'guardian' requirement.
How is the householder responsible for HIS finances, if they are neither parent or guardian?

you have jumped into the middle of a thread so Im not sure why you are asking about refugees
a grant is not income support
Im not the one making the decisions
Im telling you how it is(from memory however)
up to a certain age if a student cant prove they have lived financially independently for X period then proof of family income is required
you are family
you are supporting him or is he paying full market bills?
by your description anyone turning 18 should be eligible for full grant since very very few will have been financially independent for enough preceding years.
so the grant should be given to everyone,no?
you may nit like it but thats the case

birkee

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Surely you claimed Child Benefit and Child Tax Credit (if applicable) for him when he was still in college? You'd still be getting this now if he hadn't left.

We have never claimed anything for him. We are not his parents or guardian.
And he's just this Autumn started college, and has next years course to do as well.
How can WE claim any benefiits for him, when he was on JSA before he went to college?

When does child benefit and tax credits stop?

birkee

custardy wrote: »

you have jumped into the middle of a thread so Im not sure why you are asking about refugees
a grant is not income support
Im not the one making the decisions
Im telling you how it is(from memory however)
up to a certain age if a student cant prove they have lived financially independently for X period then proof of family income is required
you are family
you are supporting him or is he paying full market bills?
by your description anyone turning 18 should be eligible for full grant since very very few will have been financially independent for enough preceding years.
so the grant should be given to everyone,no?
you may nit like it ????? but thats the case

He pays nothing and has never been independant.

We are not parents or guardians, he just lives with us.

Your 'family' income is so ridiculous, because it would include Aunts and Uncles, his other Grandparents etc.

If he were to move around relatives, any grant would have to be reapplied for at every address by whoever gave him accomodation.
What happens if he lives with someone who ISN'T family?
Who's income is assessed then?

What happens if he hasn't been finacially independant for three years? He's barred from attending college because he needs an income to do it? From where? He's at college!

So a refugee who can't speak English can get a grant, but British citizen can't unless he's been financially independant for three years? He's barred from leaving school and going to college?

So far, nobodies statement about this situation is sounding logical.
We can always ask him to leave I suppose. Will he qualify for a grant then?
Mind you, he won't get one if he's sleeping on the streets and starving to death.

Or, he leaves college, gets a bedsit, and lives on JSA and Local Living(?) allowance.

Whatever other course of action he takes, he gets an allowance, but not while he can live off two OAP's?
I'm quite happy to provide evidence of income, but I'm not prepared to supply bank statements, and expose all my financial dealings to a college, AND reveal my account number to be circulated to all and sundry.

Jay_Tee

birkee wrote: »

He pays nothing and has never been independant.

We are not parents or guardians, he just lives with us.

Your 'family' income is so ridiculous, because it would include Aunts and Uncles, his other Grandparents etc.

If he were to move around relatives, any grant would have to be reapplied for at every address by whoever gave him accomodation.
What happens if he lives with someone who ISN'T family?
Who's income is assessed then?

What happens if he hasn't been finacially independant for three years? He's barred from attending college because he needs an income to do it? From where? He's at college!

So a refugee who can't speak English can get a grant, but British citizen can't unless he's been financially independant for three years? He's barred from leaving school and going to college?

So far, nobodies statement about this situation is sounding logical.
We can always ask him to leave I suppose. Will he qualify for a grant then?
Mind you, he won't get one if he's sleeping on the streets and starving to death.

Or, he leaves college, gets a bedsit, and lives on JSA and Local Living(?) allowance.

Whatever other course of action he takes, he gets an allowance, but not while he can live off two OAP's?
I'm quite happy to provide evidence of income, but I'm not prepared to supply bank statements, and expose all my financial dealings to a college, AND reveal my account number to be circulated to all and sundry.

Surely this applies

"You’re classed as an independent student if:
you’re 25 or older
you have a child
you have no living parents
you are or have been married or in a civil partnership
you’ve supported yourself for three years
you’re estranged from your parents"

from http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/EducationAndLearning/UniversityAndHigherEducation/StudentFinance/Gettingstarted/DG_171579

Oldernotwiser

All this information about being an independent student is only relevant to someone studying at degree level.

What should've happened is that the grandson should've been in education when he came to live with the grandparents and they were then able to claim Child Benefit and Child Tax Credit for him. By staying out of education and claiming JSA (which he should've given most to his grandparents for his keep) and waiting until now (when he has may have to pay for his college course) he's got out of synch with the system, which is why the problem has arisen.

You could claim CB/CTC for him until he's 20 but, other than that, the best thing might be for him to study part time, either whilst working part time or claiming JSA, and using either of these income streams to support himself. I'm afraid that as you've had your grandson living with you for some years now, have kept him during this time and taken no money from him for his keep, you have assumed responsibility for him which puts him in a totally different situation from living with a friend.

I'm afraid that, between you, you've made a total mess of the system. Perhaps if you put less energy into blaming immigrants for your problems and more into understanding and researching how your own country's systems work, you might all have found yourselves in a less problematic situation.

birkee

Jay_Tee wrote: »

Surely this applies

"You’re classed as an independent student if:
you’re 25 or older
you have a child
you have no living parents
you are or have been married or in a civil partnership
you’ve supported yourself for three years
you’re estranged from your parents"

from http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/EducationAndLearning/UniversityAndHigherEducation/StudentFinance/Gettingstarted/DG_171579

This is what applies, but the college want to make US financially responsible for him in their stead.

birkee

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

All this information about being an independent student is only relevant to someone studying at degree level.

What should've happened is that the grandson should've been in education when he came to live with the grandparents and they were then able to claim Child Benefit and Child Tax Credit for him. By staying out of education and claiming JSA (which he should've given most to his grandparents for his keep) and waiting until now (when he has may have to pay for his college course) he's got out of synch with the system, which is why the problem has arisen.

You could claim CB/CTC for him until he's 20 but, other than that, the best thing might be for him to study part time, either whilst working part time or claiming JSA, and using either of these income streams to support himself. I'm afraid that as you've had your grandson living with you for some years now, have kept him during this time and taken no money from him for his keep, you have assumed responsibility for him which puts him in a totally different situation from living with a friend.

I'm afraid that, between you, you've made a total mess of the system. Perhaps if you put less energy into blaming immigrants for your problems and more into understanding and researching how your own country's systems work, you might all have found yourselves in a less problematic situation.

Nobody is blaming immigrants, so your insinuation that I'm a racist calls for an apology.
What I said was, that if an immigrant can get a grant, then why can't a British citizen?

We've put ourselves out of sync with the system, so it's our own fault? That's a bit rich.
When a Grandson seeks refuge with us, do we research the system before we say yes?
When we assumed we would look after him until he got a job, were we wrong?
When he decided after a few months on JSA to go back to college, what were we supposed to do?

Why do you try and suggest WE did something wrong? As far as I can see, it is the system that is wrong, because some people don't fit between the lines drawn by a ruler, and it can't accommodate them.

It either accommodates him, or he's homeless on JSA and Living allowance. Which cost the system less?

I'll have to enquire about CA & CTC to see how that works. All I know, is that two pensioners are keeping a third party on their pensions. And YOU say "tough".