Time off for Eid

bluenoseam

Here's what i don't get, i understand that calendars tend to have important dates in Christianity marked up (given we're a predominantly Christian country despite the fact the majority of us don't attend church), some will also include other religious holidays too (my Simpsons one for example confirms that Eid al Fitr was the end of August - and apparently was Yom Kippur yesterday), wouldn't someone of a particular faith have important dates in their religious calendar year and have these known in advance? Someone has already pointed out that Christians work religious holidays such as Christmas or Easter, i do not believe this to be something which is unreasonable, particularly when presented with a festival at short notice such as the OP has implied this is, for it to be rejected unless another member of staff is arranged for cover. For example if someone came up to me and explained the situation i'd personally be happy to oblige with the understanding i'd expect the same to be afforded me if required.

I think had the member of staff asked the OP during the interview process it would have been no problem, holiday granted using X days from entitlement, but the problem is the member of staff didn't, then indicated they were taking them regardless - which if they carried out said action is clearly a disciplinary matter. It's not that all of us were "vile" (i pointed out that it would be wise to be sensitive about it given that some may take it as discriminatory - undeniable) just that some of us would look at it from a mindset that it's very short notice & is somewhat cheeky.

ceridwen

nancypearl wrote: »

A very dangerous practice to allow the longest-serving employees to have dibs on which holidays they want.
It could be seen to be discriminatory against younger people.

Reet...back on topic...

In reply to this post - I dont recall noticing O.P. stating anywhere that longest-serving employees get "first dibs" at booking holiday time.

His concern, as I read it, is that this employee knew/should have known weeks back that he required that time off as holiday time and didnt ask at the time. It is now too late for said employee to be able to book this time - UNLESS some other employee will swop time off with him.

O.P. is being kind enough to try and arrange a swop for this employee - but, if he cant, is concerned in case said employee wrongly tries to bring a claim for discrimination against him.

Hence my own advice, for instance, has been to make minutely sure that he is treating this employee EXACTLY the same way as his other employees would be treated if they had given that little notice/said they would take it anyway - ie no better, no worse. That way - he should be safe from an unfounded discrimination claim - and if this employee has the nerve to "try one on" on this - then the employer can prove he was treated EXACTLY the same as the others would be = there wasnt any discrimination.

Sambucus_Nigra

mumps wrote: »

I don't know why you need to be rude about a Christian festival. The whole country doesn't close for Christmas, I worked Christmas Day last year and the year before, I go to Midnight Mass so I can go in and enjoy Christmas with colleagues who have to be in work.. I have as many of my staff working as on any other day of the year.

I do everything I can to give staff the day off if they request it, I also do the same for other religious festivals but if I can't I can't and staff respect that. I would be unhappy if someone told me they were going to take it off anyway.

I haven't been rude - I think it is ridiculous and am allowed [as far as I am aware] to think this.

It's called having an opinion.

jamespir

ceridwen wrote: »

Reet...back on topic...

In reply to this post - I dont recall noticing O.P. stating anywhere that longest-serving employees get "first dibs" at booking holiday time.

His concern, as I read it, is that this employee knew/should have known weeks back that he required that time off as holiday time and didnt ask at the time. It is now too late for said employee to be able to book this time - UNLESS some other employee will swop time off with him.

O.P. is being kind enough to try and arrange a swop for this employee - but, if he cant, is concerned in case said employee wrongly tries to bring a claim for discrimination against him.

Hence my own advice, for instance, has been to make minutely sure that he is treating this employee EXACTLY the same way as his other employees would be treated if they had given that little notice/said they would take it anyway - ie no better, no worse. That way - he should be safe from an unfounded discrimination claim - and if this employee has the nerve to "try one on" on this - then the employer can prove he was treated EXACTLY the same as the others would be = there wasnt any discrimination.

read his reply to my question about his holiday policy

pinkshoes

What I don't understand is that if taking time off for Eid some time in November was so important to him, then why didn't he say so when you asked if he had any required time off coming up?!

I like to go skiing, but didn't used to book until the last minute, so when they asked about holidays, I just said that I was hopefully going skiing, so would need a week off some time in March, and my boss would pencil it in. If someone else then wanted time off around the same time, he'd come and ask me if I had a date yet.

Just treat this situation like you would any other employee; you are a small business, so unless they can find someone willing to swap the holiday to allow them to take the time off, then unfortunately they will have to work those days. If they fail to turn up to work, then they will be facing disciplinary action.

Him saying he'll just take it off anyway really is really rude! If I'd said anything like that to my boss, you could guarantee he wouldn't let me take my ski trip! Attitudes like that can be done without in business.

Sambucus_Nigra

I can only presume he is a bloke [and a bad planner] or didn't want to muck them about if the dates change at a later date.

mildred1978

pink_princess wrote: »

Why is it short notice though?
There is advance knowledge of the week or so that EID lands in.
The employee should of said at interview, & the rotas being done etc that this week was a must off.

should have, not should of.

Same as would have and could have.

apples1

nancypearl wrote: »

A very dangerous practice to allow the longest-serving employees to have dibs on which holidays they want.
It could be seen to be discriminatory against younger people.

We have only had a business five years and our longest serving employee is by no means the oldest! The shortest serving isn't the youngest either! We have to let someone go first and we discussed it with the staff we had at the time we set the policy & all decided longest serving was as fair as any. What criteria would have been better as we really struggled with how to decide?

To ensure nobody got all the best holiday the first person was only allowed to book two of their five weeks before passing on to next employee to book two of their weeks etc. Then when all had chance to book two weeks it went round again to book week three then again to book week four and finally again to book week five for those that got five weeks.

It was truly fairest way we could think of so I am genuinely interested in what would have been fairer if this way is considered discriminatory. I am truly about the fairest employer I know - all this unexpected criticism of my working has been rather a surprise but I am open to suggestions for improvement as long as they are not detrimental to business as without business the employees won't have jobs to take holiday from!

Frogletina

apples1 wrote: »

We have only had a business five years and our longest serving employee is by no means the oldest! The shortest serving isn't the youngest either! We have to let someone go first and we discussed it with the staff we had at the time we set the policy & all decided longest serving was as fair as any. What criteria would have been better as we really struggled with how to decide?

To ensure nobody got all the best holiday the first person was only allowed to book two of their five weeks before passing on to next employee to book two of their weeks etc. Then when all had chance to book two weeks it went round again to book week three then again to book week four and finally again to book week five for those that got five weeks.

It was truly fairest way we could think of so I am genuinely interested in what would have been fairer if this way is considered discriminatory. I am truly about the fairest employer I know - all this unexpected criticism of my working has been rather a surprise but I am open to suggestions for improvement as long as they are not detrimental to business as without business the employees won't have jobs to take holiday from!

I worked for a very large national company who used to book like this too. I remember only too well as I was at the bottom of the list for a very long time. First rotation, the best weeks in summer were taken by the time I got the list and on the second rotation weeks around Christmas were taken! The theory being that one day you would be at the top of the list.

Before that though happened to me though it was changed and we booked on line, but to get the best dates you had to book as soon as the leave dates were opened which was 13 months in advance. It meant you were booking your holiday one day at a time, first thing in the morning, hoping you'd get in 14 days in a row in summer. He/she who hesitated was lost - I became a dab hand at it.

Oldernotwiser

pink_princess wrote: »

I get the sentiment but the regulars on MSE know that I was recently promoted probably above my means where I need to email alot every day & I am conscious that my English skills are far from the best.

"A lot" are two separate words, not "alot".