Time off for Eid

LittleVoice

fedster wrote: »

Yes but i dont want any more time of then is neccessary, i just want the actual day of, thats it, so that link is no good to me.

I didn't realise we were dealing with your requirement for a holiday but for holiday being requested by apple's employee.

I didn't realise you were asking for the link for your own benefit! I was demonstrating that it is possible to find the approximate date - and the OP's employee was asking for 3 days, not one.

ceridwen

I cant see why you would "have to give it".

Presumably he knew the rules - ie 6 weeks notice required from people if they want time off.

So - if he cant find a colleague to swop with him - then its his tough luck. If he goes ahead and takes it anyway regardless - then he merits exactly the same disciplinary action as anyone else who took time off that they hadnt been granted.

It is simply not an employers concern as to WHY an employee wants holiday time - be it a religious festival, personal "occasions" or just because they take a fancy to that particular time off. The rules are the rules regardless of the reason for why one wants holiday.

fedster

Googlewhacker wrote: »

Fedster, the vast majority of companies will allow time off with short periods of notice, the company I work at does and it is great but the OP's company clearly has a method for whatever reason and as such the employee needs to be aware of this and I wouldn't expect this to be discriminatory because apples is not refusing the time off in the future as long as it is booked in the same way as other members of staff

To be fair, that isnt the actual issue, the issue was the Employees attitude, and as has been said by the OP, if he had a better attitude, then he would have been given it, like i said before a good attitude, good manners, and a hard work gets you alot in life.

apples1

Googlewhacker wrote: »

Apples, I think you have been more than reasonable and the employee SHOULD have booked a week off when he had the chance so that he got the day he wanted off.

He knew you did the rotas 6 weeks in advance so he should plan for this accordingly.

However! I do believe on this occasion you should try and organise it so he can have the day of but remind him in the future that he will have to book it like every other member of staff and if he does not know what day a festival exactly will land on then he will need to book time around it.

He wants three days off - 7th, 8th and 9th Nov. I assume the festival is three days long? Is that correct? I am trying to organise it but other staff (and as you now know I don't have many) have commitments too now so it's really hard but I am trying and always was going to. If others can't cover and his attitude is "I am taking it anyway".

And just to clarify from the posts just above this - I don't say I'd give it if he had a better attitude. I said I'd give it if others could cover him. Whilst his attitude saddens me it won't have a bearing on how hard I try to get him cover. If I can't get cover I would expect him (or anyone else asking in a similar situation) to work. He seems not to be willing to do so. Others have asked for short notice time off (bargain concert tickets at last minute, family needing a lift to an appointment, time to take cat to the vet, day off for school class assembly and many other reasons each important to the person asking) and when ever I can cover it I have when I can't they work.

jamespir

apples1 wrote: »

He wants three days off - 7th, 8th and 9th Nov. I assume the festival is three days long? Is that correct? I am trying to organise it but other staff (and as you now know I don't have many) have commitments too now so it's really hard but I am trying and always was going to. If others can't cover and his attitude is "I am taking it anyway".

i think because if he doesnt it is seen as disrespectful within his community
i know its hard for you
but you may have to come to some agreement that benefits all

ceridwen

apples1 wrote: »

He wants three days off - 7th, 8th and 9th Nov. I assume the festival is three days long? Is that correct? I am trying to organise it but other staff (and as you now know I don't have many) have commitments too now so it's really hard but I am trying and always was going to. If others can't cover and his attitude is "I am taking it anyway".

And just to clarify from the posts just above this - I don't say I'd give it if he had a better attitude. I said I'd give it if others could cover him. Whilst his attitude saddens me it won't have a bearing on how hard I try to get him cover. If I can't get cover I would expect him (or anyone else asking in a similar situation) to work. He seems not to be willing to do so. Others have asked for short notice time off (bargain concert tickets at last minute, family needing a lift to an appointment, time to take cat to the vet, day off for school class assembly and many other reasons each important to the person asking) and when ever I can cover it I have when I can't they work.

Well - as you say - IF you can find a way to get him cover to go off on those days then thats one thing. But - if you made any extra effort at all on his behalf over and above what you would do for other people - then that would be discriminatory against your other staff and they would be entitled to complain that this new employee was getting "better treatment" than them.

So - personally - in your shoes I would make EXACTLY the same amount of effort to get cover on his behalf that I would make on behalf of my other employees - not a smidgen more/not a smidgen less. If I couldnt get cover for that amount of effort - he would be told "I'm sorry - but its not possible for me to let you have it. I have noted you say you will take it anyway. If you DO take it anyway - then the disciplinary measures I will take against you for doing that are as follows......" and take them if need be.

jamespir

ceridwen wrote: »

Well - as you say - IF you can find a way to get him cover to go off on those days then thats one thing. But - if you made any extra effort at all on his behalf over and above what you would do for other people - then that would be discriminatory against your other staff and they would be entitled to complain that this new employee was getting "better treatment" than them.

So - personally - in your shoes I would make EXACTLY the same amount of effort to get cover on his behalf that I would make on behalf of my other employees - not a smidgen more/not a smidgen less. If I couldnt get cover for that amount of effort - he would be told "I'm sorry - but its not possible for me to let you have it. I have noted you say you will take it anyway. If you DO take it anyway - then the disciplinary measures I will take against you for doing that are as follows......" and take them if need be.

if it was a holiday to spain then yeah that could work but its a religious holiday and the lad involved can be (albit extreme) be shunned by his family and community if he does not have it off so emotionally balckmailing him is not fair and if his employees fire him for it then he could go to a tribunal under religious grounds

somethingcorporate

jamespir wrote: »

if it was a holiday to spain then yeah that could work but its a religious holiday and the lad involved can be (albit extreme) be shunned by his family and community if he does not have it off so emotionally balckmailing him is not fair and if his employees fire him for it then he could go to a tribunal under religious grounds

Stop scaremongering - what a load of tosh. Being absent without leave is grounds for instant dismissal whether it is to attend your own fathers funeral or a religious holiday.

ceridwen

jamespir wrote: »

if it was a holiday to spain then yeah that could work but its a religious holiday and the lad involved can be (albit extreme) be shunned by his family and community if he does not have it off so emotionally balckmailing him is not fair and if his employees fire him for it then he could go to a tribunal under religious grounds

So what?

The reason - whatever it is - is irrelevant. It would be irrelevant if it was a Christian festival even.

The normal way the business operates is what matters and its ALL that matters. If he can be accommodated within that "normal way" - then accommodate him. If he cant - he cant - and he mustnt expect any "special" treatment over and above what any other employee would get.

I dont see why he should be "positively discriminated" in favour of himself personally just because he is one religion rather than another. So what? A religion is a religion is a religion and they are all exactly equal to each other and humanists and atheists have exactly the same rights too.

I repeat - his religion is totally irrelevant to everyone else - including the employer. The only thing that is relevant is he operating in accordance with the rules of the company - in EXACTLY the same way as the other employees are expected to.

If this employee is treated EXACTLY the same as any other employee acting that way (ie demanding holiday at short notice and saying they will have it anyway) then there is no discrimination and I dont believe an employer should be blackmailed into giving one employee better treatment than his other employees just because of some totally personal factor like that.

Valli

Jarndyce wrote: »

I am speechless at some of the responses on this thread.

racial stereotyping (he'll throw a sickie anyway so you might as welll give it to him)

How is that RACIAL stereotyping?

Employee (new employee I might add) asks for time off and is effectively told a 'no' so it is assumed he'll throw a sickie. That's all.
He might; he might not.

I'm intrigued as to how Eid (either of the Eid festivals, that is) are apparently so loosely scheduled.

I would have thought that any employee who will need certain days off work for religious observance should make the employer aware of their requirements as soon as possible.