Time off for Eid

VfM4meplse

LittleVoice wrote: »

you can't be 100% accurate until much nearer the time.

It depends on the sighting of the moon the previous evening. I have no problem with being flexible but I do have difficulty with people taking the p, this employee was well aware of the situation but failed to offer the appropriate information at the right time.

pink_princess

apples1 wrote: »

He has asked for 3 days off without ever before mentioning he would need time off for a religious event even if he didn't know exact date. When I said I would look at it but it would depend on whether his colleagues could swap/cover he said he'd need it off anyway. I have taken a long hard look at myself and see no fault with anything here other than that attitude. I bend over backwards to give staff a really good work/life balance. I am not clear about the issue with not knowing the date as the dates for Eid 2011, 2012 and beyond are all over the internet so whilst I am not claiming any knowledge of this religion or it's special dates it does seem that he would have had more than enough knowledge to mention time off required early Nov at either:
1) interview when he was asked if he had any pre-booked holiday
3)after job offer (when he was asked again if he had any pre-arranged hol)
3) when a draft rota was given out 10 days ago for all to check and come back with any queries etc within a four day window.
4) when final rota was published four days later to all staff by e mail and displayed hard copy at work.

If I am wrong and the date for Eid has just been announced in the last 24 hours then please let me know as I am happy to stand corrected and appreciate the education. I would still feel he could have warned me that this situation would occur.

I certainly don't begrudge people requesting time off. I begrudge them saying "I am going off no matter what"!

Your right the employee should of mentioned this at all those occasions, but what you are now left with is a new employee who on religious grounds wants to use up annual holiday days.
Can he be covered? Or is this going to cause a nightmare trading wise?
If it can be covered then I would, always best to get the annual leave out of the way anyway.
If not then you have no legal obligation to allow the time off but as an employer the message this could spread to your team on the whole is not a good one. I'm thinking about the productivity levels also.

On a seperate matter this thread is teaching me just how ignorant I am to my staff sometimes.
I've just checked the holiday tracker for last year & the dates for EID al adha & my employee definatley only booked in a week during January for the September First EID, 2 day a week employee, so must have known it would land then.
Same again this year. Actually on her tracker it also says to note no overtime will be accepted that full month. Tiredness due to Ramadan perhaps?
Do all muslims follow the 2nd EID? Sorry for my ignorance

fedster

LittleVoice wrote: »

I'm not Apples but here's a link - http://www.godweb.org/IslamCalendar.htm .

Though I know most muslim would say you can't be 100% accurate until much nearer the time, that's one site which certainly purports to give a good idea of when the festivals are. Close enough to know roughly when you might want time off.

Yes but i dont want any more time of then is neccessary, i just want the actual day of, thats it, so that link is no good to me.

apples1

Hi Jamespir, In answer to your Q What is our holiday policy....

We released the 2011 holiday in Nov 2010. At this time they can all put in two weeks (or two lots of one week etc) on the planner starting with the longest serving employee first (no overlapping) and it goes through the team (pro-rated for part time staff). Once all done it goes back to the person at the top of the list to do another week and once all done it goes back to the person at the top of the list to do a fourth week and so on until everyone has requested their four or five weeks (depending on length of service). If they choose to hold back some holiday and not request it then they can request it during the year but it will not be given if someone else is already off.

Holiday kept back requests have to be in before the rotas are published and whilst they are contracted to work their 37.5 hours across any of the trading days I give them six weeks notice with rotas so they all know their days off in plenty of time which they really appreciate. If they want a specific day as their day off then if they ask me before the rotas are done I nearly always give it. We are a small business with six full time staff (and a couple of students who work weekends and some extra days in college holidays). This is the fairest system we could think of and we did it in consultation with the team. It is the same for everyone no matter what their religion.

We have had almost zero staff turnover so only had a couple of full time new starters since having the business five years ago but we obviously honour pre-booked holiday for new starters and try our best to accomodate their requests as they fit in to our team. I would have not blinked if he had told me that a religious festival was taking place in Nov and he'd need the time either at the time of interview, job offer, when asked if any holiday to put on the rota, when asked to check the rota etc etc . I would have not given other full timers those days as their days off and despite someone else being on holiday would have managed to accomodate it. Those full timers will now have made plans (one does care for her elderly mother and shares this with other family, another keeps her little son out of nursery on her day off and that has to be arranged with a certain amount of notice otherwise she is charged and others just plan dentist, shopping trips with friends and normal life plans for their down time) and they know once the rota is published they can make their plans as their days off are set. As I said I will ask them to help him out but if they can't/won't then whilst I can force it on them it hardly seems fair.

Also I am still not clear - has the date for this festival just been "released/known" in the last 24 hours? I am not being insensitive asking - just trying to understand....

SHIPSHAPE

Jarndyce wrote: »

I am speechless at some of the responses on this thread.

Some of you need to take a long hard look at yourselves.

From the disrespectful and ignorant ("something in the Muslim calendar - I don't know what") to the racial stereotyping (he'll throw a sickie anyway so you might as welll give it to him) and from the "beware of the PC brigade" scaremongering to the dismissive "fire him" couldn't care less attitude. I'm appalled.

All of you - ask yourselves if you would have responded in the same way if this had been a non-Muslim asking for a couple of days off at short notice to attend a family gathering?

Hang your heads in shame.

Oh, get over yourself goodytwoshoes.

Non-muslims don't know, or even care to know, about muslim festivals.

I have my own faith and have no interest in another one.

And how is it racial stereotyping? Some people of any faith, or of none, will always swing the lead and take days off on a sickie if they can't get it any other way. Nobody mentioned only muslims do this.

Lentil eating, sandal wearing hippy.

Sambucus_Nigra

SHIPSHAPE wrote: »

Oh, get over yourself goodytwoshoes.

Non-muslims don't know, or even care to know, about muslim festivals.

I have my own faith and have no interest in another one.

And how is it racial stereotyping? Some people of any faith, or of none, will always swing the lead and take days off on a sickie if they can't get it any other way. Nobody mentioned only muslims do this.

Letil eating, sandal wearing hippy.

I don't have any faith, but I am still aware of many religious festivals.

However I AM a lentil eating [I assume you meant lentils, rather than 'letils' of which I have no knowledge at all], sandal wearing [although at the moment, it's a little chilly round here for sandals] hippy. So does that mean that only hippies are allowed to know about faiths they do not believe in - as I have heard about this Christmas thingy and believe the whole bloomin country closes down for this ridiculous festival.

liney

If you do not specically 'support' any religious festivals, ie Christmas, then I don't think it's an issue refusing Eid on discrimination grounds, however, having to give at least 6 weeks notice for 1 days holiday seems excessive and impractical. For example, I am rarely given more than 2 weeks notice for school events like Sports Day, school plays, and parents evening. Your lady with a child at Nursery will probably find the same when he starts school. I think you should re-visit your policy.

As for knowing when Eid is, it depends on the moon, so it's quite feasable he has given you a date as soon as he has been informed by his Mosque(?) I guess. Here is link from last year explaining how it is predicted http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/sep/09/eid-al-fitr-ramadan

jamespir

apples1 wrote: »

Hi Jamespir, In answer to your Q What is our holiday policy....

We released the 2011 holiday in Nov 2010. At this time they can all put in two weeks (or two lots of one week etc) on the planner starting with the longest serving employee first (no overlapping) and it goes through the team (pro-rated for part time staff). Once all done it goes back to the person at the top of the list to do another week and once all done it goes back to the person at the top of the list to do a fourth week and so on until everyone has requested their four or five weeks (depending on length of service). If they choose to hold back some holiday and not request it then they can request it during the year but it will not be given if someone else is already off. Requests have to be in before the rotas are published and whilst they are contracted to work their 37.5 hours across any of the trading days I give them six weeks notice with rotas so they all know their days off in plenty of time which they really appreciate. If they want a specific day as their day off then if they ask me before the rotas are done I nearly always give it. We are a small business with six full time staff (and a couple of students who work weekends and some extra days in college holidays). This is the fairest system we could think of and we did it in consultation with the team. It is the same for everyone no matter what their religion. We have had almost zero staff turnover so only had a couple of full time new starters since having the business five years ago but we obviously honour pre-booked holiday for new starters and try our best to accomodate their requests as they fit in to our team. I would have not blinked if he had told me that a religious festival was taking place in Nov and he'd need the time either at the time of interview, job offer, when asked if any holiday to put on the rota, when asked to check the rota etc etc . I would have not given other full timers those days as their days off and despite someone else being on holiday would have managed to accomodate it. Those full timers will now have made plans (one does care for her elderly mother and shares this with other family, another keeps her little son out of nursery on her day off and that has to be arranged with a certain amount of notice otherwise she is charged and others just plan dentist, shopping trips with friends and normal life plans for their down time) and they know once the rota is published they can make their plans as their days off are set. As I said I will ask them to help him out but if they can't/won't then whilst I can force it on them it hardly seems fair.

Also I am still not clear - has the date for this festival just been "released/known" in the last 24 hours? I am not being insensitive asking - just trying to understand....

it seems quite contrived but i get the gist
and understand when you have very few staff you need all you can but could you give him the time off when he needs up but he covers a shift or two (that he may not normally on ) to make up the time

jamespir

SHIPSHAPE wrote: »

Oh, get over yourself goodytwoshoes.

Non-muslims don't know, or even care to know, about muslim festivals.

I have my own faith and have no interest in another one.

And how is it racial stereotyping? Some people of any faith, or of none, will always swing the lead and take days off on a sickie if they can't get it any other way. Nobody mentioned only muslims do this.

Lentil eating, sandal wearing hippy.

not sure why you need to be bigoted im not muslim but i am understanding of others who are

apples1

This is getting silly. Is it possible for me to close the thread? I opened it to ask if I legally had to allow the time, I now have that answer and have no interest in running a thread where people are starting to accuse others of being dis-respectful to other faiths and are calling each other childish names.