dismissal i feel is just around the corner, when can i jump?

titch1644

without giving too much away

i have got to the point of no return, some things i have always done
and over 10 years never been a query
but now a third party has reported it the company has to been seen to be doing something

so question are;

1. do the company own my ECS and certificates?
2. if when i sit down to hear the director at the dismissal hearing, he starts to say we are dispensing with your services, can i hand over my notice? does this mean it never happened?

saintjammyswine

1. Not sure what ECS but in most cases, the certificates are the property of the awarding body but should be held by the candidate, regardless of who paid for the training/exam. A recent change in guidance, previously if the employer paid for the training/exam then the certificate would go to them, now they go to the candidate.
2. If you resign while under investigation/threat of dismissal then any future reference can reflect this "reason for leaving: Resigned while under investigation/during disciplinary procedings" it wont go away and infact can look worse.

Jarndyce

titch1644 wrote: »

if when i sit down to hear the director at the dismissal hearing, he starts to say we are dispensing with your services, can i hand over my notice? does this mean it never happened?

Of course it doesn't.

You were under the disciplinary process when you resigned, and if they are asked the question in a subsequent reference request, that is what they could say, as recent posters to this board can testify!

However, if that is how they conduct the disciplinary hearing (and/or if they are actually calling it a 'dismissal hearing'!) you would have a clear case for unfair dismissal on the basis that the outcome was predetermined. The hearing is your opportunity to put your case. It should not prejudge the issue. You should also have a subsequent right of appeal if you are dismissed.

Presumably you have representation at your hearing and they will run the defence that you have outlined?

saintjammyswine

Waiting for someone (no names) to come on & wax lyrical about a CA!!!!

Jarndyce

Why so cryptic?

A compromise agreement is only an option if the employer has any incentive to agree to termination on a mutual basis eg if they are not entirely comfortable with their disciplinary action. If they are secure with what they are doing they have no incentive to go down the CA route.

We don't know enough about the OP's alleged misconduct to know whether this is likely to be the case.

So the OP can of course ask whether a compromise agreement might be a runner, but from the gloomy picture they have painted it may well be too late for that.

saintjammyswine

Jarndyce wrote: »

Why so cryptic?

A compromise agreement is only an option if the employer has any incentive to agree to termination on a mutual basis eg if they are not entirely comfortable with their disciplinary action. If they are secure with what they are doing they have no incentive to go down the CA route.

We don't know enough about the OP's alleged misconduct to know whether this is likely to be the case.

So the OP can of course ask whether a compromise agreement might be a runner, but from the gloomy picture they have painted it may well be too later for that.

Oh I completely agree and it is not likely from what we have been told. There is a poster on here obsessed with CAs and was expecting him/her to appear at any minute and give frankly wrong advice.

Uncertain

saintjammyswine wrote: »

Oh I completely agree and it is not likely from what we have been told. There is a poster on here obsessed with CAs and was expecting him/her to appear at any minute and give frankly wrong advice.

I think I know who you mean!

It can depend on the firms normal attitude / policy. Some are keen to go down the CA route in virtually any case as they are willing to pay a little for an easy life.

Others have a totally OTT fear of any adverse publicity and will settle to avoid it.

Then again you get firms who will fight any claim tooth and nail regardless of economics or likelihood of winning as they feel it keeps the remaining staff in order!

We would need rather more information to give meaningful advice.

SarEl

Just to add, I think that the issue of certificates etc may be slightly more complex. I assume we are talking about an electrician here? If I recall correctly I think ECS is a car certifying the standards / qualifications (work-related) that someone meets. If the disciplinary is related to unsafe working standards or something of that ilk I do not know that there may not be some potential impact. It really is, I don't know - but I would assume (possibly hope) that if workers have something that certifies them so that the rest of us know that they are "safe" that the same body has some oversight if this is then brought into question?

saintjammyswine

Ah, if I am correct, ECS is the electrical equivalent of the CSCS card and so certifies the competence of someone to work on site in that occupation. In which case if it is the same as the CSCS, although the employer signs the application to show you are working in the industry, the card is yours. Best to check with ECS though.

titch1644

I can not say too much as obviously you never know who is reading what.
But to clarify, we were working with our lead engineer not following all of the company's guidelines
On working practices. I have worked the same way for 10 years and it goes on. But someone reported us,
So now the company have to be seen to be doing something.

I work on the motorway and we over stayed on the hard shoulder,
There is a rule of how long, our company says 15min without cones. Some do 45, it has never been ratified.
We were there guess here but 20 to 30 mins.

There is other things, we had a little bonus from some redundant cable. Which if they looked hard enough,
They would see the whole work force is doing. Was only a couple of tenners. But they see it differently

So when I'm in tomorrow , we have had hinted that there will be the option to bow out if it comes to that .
My only worry is the reference.

Uncertain

titch1644 wrote: »

So when I'm in tomorrow , we have had hinted that there will be the option to bow out if it comes to that .
My only worry is the reference.

If they are looking to reach a settlement then you may well be able to get them to provide an agreed reference. This costs them nothing but may be more valuable to you than a small payoff.

However, as I said it does depend on how strong a case they have and their normal attitude / policy in these situations.