Tax credits, is this true?

Jessikita1983

kingfisherblue wrote: »

Quote by Jessikita1983, post 12:

All the people on benefits that I see, seem to do ok. They all have big screen TV's, the latest sky package, chain smoke, drink 8 tinnies a day, afford a holiday at least once a day and wear designer clothes. this is true of all the people on benefits that I SEE.

All while they never actually do any work and have been long term unemployed, voluntary. Every time we recruit we can never fill the jobs!

You stated all the people you see on benefits Yes I did state this, and make no apologies for it. This is MY experience of ALL the people on benefits. As my experience is the people I have repeatedly moaned about! - only later, after some criticism, did you say that you don't mean disabled people, and you still have no understanding for carers. I do understand, just because I disagree, does not mean I have not understood it.

FWIW, as I have stated previously, I do not agree with claimants who choose benefits as a lifestyle choice. This is MY experience of benefit claimants, hence my comments above. I don't think that churning out children whilst claiming benefits (as illustrated in Merlin's post) is acceptable at all.Again this is MY experience I made a choice not to have any more children, although I would have liked more than three. I was married at the time and knew that we couldn't afford them. If tax credits existed, I didn't know about them. I would never have had children that I didn't think we could comfortably afford.

Unfortunately, as I stated in an earlier post, my marriage broke up (and yes, I was the last to know!) and I had to rely on benefits. My ex doesn't live in this area any more, my mum and my in laws are in their 70s and none are in good health. My daughter works two jobs. I can't work because of my responsibility to my son.

This does not make me or any other carer the same type of person who does not want to work, or who has more children so that more benefits can be claimed. I never said it did, I said all the people that I see.

So although you now defend yourself, Jessikita, and say that you were not going after disabled people in your original comment, you certainly didn't say anything about exceptions such as disabled people. That came later, and only after criticism. Indeed, maybe I should have clarified/quantified my comments about people I see on benefits earlier. This is my experience of them. I often see them talking on the front of their gardens, still in their pyjamas at 2 o'clock in the afternoon, fag out hanging out of their mouth, tinny in the other, while moaning to their neighbours about how they couldn't get something of the state, while their children roam the streets, unsupervised.

Comments above.

Jessikita1983

xXMessedUpXx wrote: »

I'm interested to know what illnesses pass for genuine now...

Read post 108, I was not making comments about "genuine illnesses". Please re-read my use of grammar and I.E

kingfisherblue

Your experience of benefit claimants is somewhat limited, but thank you for clarifying that you only have expereince of the stereotypical layabout. Fortunately, as I have stated, we are not all like that. I sincerely hope that you are never put in the position that I and many others are in, and become a carer. You might find yourself having to change your opinions.

Incidentally, is a 'tinny' a can of beer? It is an expression I haven't heard before, but I am assuming this is what you mean.

Jessikita1983

kingfisherblue wrote: »

I did read post 106 - I also read your preceding posts. OK, so you're not having a go at disabled people (if they are absolutely genuine). Please read my comments on carers and realise that we, too, have genuine reasons for not being in paid employment.

Incidentally, I'm sure I'm not the only carer who goes back to bed for a sleep in the day, after yet another night of getting up to see to the person they care for. During this rather heated debate, I have been to see to my son three times (hence some delays in replying to posts).

If I am expected to put my child into specialised care (at exhorbitant cost to the state, as my earning capacity would not be that great), and work while he is in this care facility, when can I sleep?

Jessikita, you might not agree, but surely you can see why carers cannot always work and that it is not a choice, it is through necessity?

If we were only paying for specialised care and not all the other benefits, and all the people I have repeatedly moaned about were made to work, trust me, most decent hard working people I know would be in more support of paying for your sons specialist care at "exhoritant" cost than paying for those kinds of people benefits. Even with paying for you to have some respite care so you could sleep would not be begrudged.

Cornish_piskie

OP - from your post #57

I do not now nor will I ever believe in a welfare state.

So why are you bleating about not getting £545? If your morals are so high that you alone will provide for yourself and your family then the thought of any entitlement to benefits (whatever form they may take) should not concern you.

Re the NHS - do you know how much it will cost the NHS for you to have midwifery/GP/consultant care through your pregnancy? Do you know how much a straightforward birth costs the NHS? Do you know how much a complicated birth costs? Do you know how much it costs for instance to nurse a premature baby or a full term baby who suffers breathing difficulties at birth (v common btw)? Thousands. No doubt you will feel you have 'paid' for that through your taxes. Tot up your income tax over the last years and see if it will pay for all this, not to mention your child's education - mainstream or specialist if needed. Your child's healthcare needs - from straightforward vaccinations to any serious illnesses he/she might have. It won't come close.

What if your child, heaven forbid, be born with disabilities/special needs etc. At what stage will you be taking out the mythical insurance policy to cover the hundreds of thousands of pounds it might take to look after them throughout their life (and don't scoff - I work with people who have care packages costing up to 8k a week).

What if your family falls apart - through redundancy/illness/death - presumably you will not want anything to do with a welfare state then?

Good luck. You might want to 'opt back in' if life becomes not so rosey.

Jessikita1983

kingfisherblue wrote: »

Your experience of benefit claimants is somewhat limited, but thank you for clarifying that you only have expereince of the stereotypical layabout. Fortunately, as I have stated, we are not all like that. I sincerely hope that you are never put in the position that I and many others are in, and become a carer. You might find yourself having to change your opinions.

Incidentally, is a 'tinny' a can of beer? It is an expression I haven't heard before, but I am assuming this is what you mean.

I understand that I may have come across as unsympathic towards you and disabled people, I really am not. I cannot imagine what it is like to have a child with disabilities and I do sympathise with your son and your position. My Secondary School had a specialist unit for disabled people attached to the School and I did see some of the care requirements they needed. There is not an easy answer.

I really do try not to stereo type but unfortunately my 4 years in my current role has done nothing to change my opinion, only reinforced the stereotype, I went in with an open mind, only to find my scenario above to be the case 99% of the time, or very similar examples (I won't list them all)

If I did have a disabled child, my opinions about the people in my above paragraph would still not change!

Yes, a "tinny" is a can/tin of beer or the like.

Jessikita1983

Cornish_piskie wrote: »

OP - from your post #57

I do not now nor will I ever believe in a welfare state.

So why are you bleating about not getting £545? If your morals are so high that you alone will provide for yourself and your family then the thought of any entitlement to benefits (whatever form they may take) should not concern you.

Re the NHS - do you know how much it will cost the NHS for you to have midwifery/GP/consultant care through your pregnancy? Do you know how much a straightforward birth costs the NHS? Do you know how much a complicated birth costs? Do you know how much it costs for instance to nurse a premature baby or a full term baby who suffers breathing difficulties at birth (v common btw)? Thousands. No doubt you will feel you have 'paid' for that through your taxes. Tot up your income tax over the last years and see if it will pay for all this, not to mention your child's education - mainstream or specialist if needed. Your child's healthcare needs - from straightforward vaccinations to any serious illnesses he/she might have. It won't come close.

What if your child, heaven forbid, be born with disabilities/special needs etc. At what stage will you be taking out the mythical insurance policy to cover the hundreds of thousands of pounds it might take to look after them throughout their life (and don't scoff - I work with people who have care packages costing up to 8k a week).

What if your family falls apart - through redundancy/illness/death - presumably you will not want anything to do with a welfare state then? Yes, because I have been forced to pay for everyone else to benefit from it. Not if I was allowed to opt out. That would be hypocritical.

Good luck. You might want to 'opt back in' if life becomes not so rosey.

I'm not answering all of these again, please refer to my earlier posts for clarification and answers to your questions.

Cornish_piskie

And you took no notice of the fact that YOUR payments into the system will not make a dent into what you will take out if you are lucky enough to have a child. You live in a country that has a welfare state that we all pay into. If you don't like it then it's fairly simple - move to a different country.

kingfisherblue

Cornish_piskie wrote: »

OP - from your post #57

I do not now nor will I ever believe in a welfare state.

So why are you bleating about not getting £545? If your morals are so high that you alone will provide for yourself and your family then the thought of any entitlement to benefits (whatever form they may take) should not concern you.

Re the NHS - do you know how much it will cost the NHS for you to have midwifery/GP/consultant care through your pregnancy? Do you know how much a straightforward birth costs the NHS? Do you know how much a complicated birth costs? Do you know how much it costs for instance to nurse a premature baby or a full term baby who suffers breathing difficulties at birth (v common btw)? Thousands. No doubt you will feel you have 'paid' for that through your taxes. Tot up your income tax over the last years and see if it will pay for all this, not to mention your child's education - mainstream or specialist if needed. Your child's healthcare needs - from straightforward vaccinations to any serious illnesses he/she might have. It won't come close.

What if your child, heaven forbid, be born with disabilities/special needs etc. At what stage will you be taking out the mythical insurance policy to cover the hundreds of thousands of pounds it might take to look after them throughout their life (and don't scoff - I work with people who have care packages costing up to 8k a week).

What if your family falls apart - through redundancy/illness/death - presumably you will not want anything to do with a welfare state then?

Good luck. You might want to 'opt back in' if life becomes not so rosey.

Excellent post, Cornish piskie. I didn't know that it was possible to have care packages that cost so much though. I think carers offer excellent value for money

Jessikita1983

Cornish_piskie wrote: »

And you took no notice of the fact that YOUR payments into the system will not make a dent into what you will take out if you are lucky enough to have a child. You live in a country that has a welfare state that we all pay into. Yes all decent WORKING people pay into, not the section of society I have repeatedly complained about. If you don't like it then it's fairly simple - move to a different country.

Again you are missing my point. If my payments will not even make a dent to what I take out as a full time working person, what about a person who has NEVER contributed and done nothing but claim off the state their whole life, and produced children to use the schools and NHS.

You are fully entitled to your opinion on the welfare state - but I will never agree.