Racism, Discrimination, illegal contract from Marks & Spencer what are my options?

Jarndyce

Carl31 wrote: »

im not sure blaming your skin colour everytime something goes wrong is going to do you many favours in life

do you really think a high profile company like M+S would turn down good candidates for illegal reasons? theres not one hint of racism in what you say, yet thats your conclusion

even if they did employ you, how long would it be before you had then over some attempting legal case for something you didnt agree with 'because youre black?'

Equally there is no suggestion that the OP would do this.

This thread obviously has the potential to go downhill very fast. Please don't help it on its way.

Emmzi

Jarndyce wrote: »

Equally there is no suggestion that the OP would do this.

This thread obviously has the potential to go downhill very fast. Please don't help it on its way.

Um, I think the entirety of the first post suggests the OP would do this, unless there actually is some evidence of racism we are not being told about.

Loanranger

It's normal to feel disappointed and frustrated when a rejection comes along and I fully understand how you feel. Bringing your ethnic background into the equation here is unwarranted, I have read your post carefully and there is no evidence of racial discrimination. You do yourself no favours by accusing an employer of turning you down because you're black. Your attitude is a major stumbling block to your progress. Instead of placing the blame onto the employer, you need to accept that you did not get it right on the day. That's not to suggest you won't get it right at the next interview but your attitude is standing in your way at the moment. I hope you can get it right and go forward. If you persist in blaming everyone else for this you will not progress.
One bad interview will not hold you back, there will be other opportunities, but only if you accept responsibility. Part of being an adult is accepting responsibility for our own actions and dealing sensibly with the outcomes and learning from mistakes. You are still young at 18 and you need to learn this.

MDW

Jarndyce wrote: »

I sympathise with a lot of your sentiments, but there is nothing in your post which suggests to me that your race or colour had anything to do with your rejection. You would have to make out at least a germ of a case that that was so for any claim to get off the starting blocks.

You obviously have something about you, both to get to the interview stage for such a job and also to be able to feel strongly about your treatment and articulate your views so well. It would be a great shame if that energy was channelled in the wrong direction. I would try and put this experience behind you and focus on getting another job - there are lots of Xmas opportunities coming up now in the retail trade even if nothing permanent is available for now.

Whilst I would be the first to help you if yuo had a genuine case of race discrimination, I really don't think this is the one to make a stand on. Good luck.

I did make a small point about being the store i applied to work for was mainly where a huge proportion of a white ethnic background that due to my skin color or how i look, that i was turned down mainly because i wouldn't fit in. Now, i'm not saying that is the case, just an opinion of mines that i strongly believe in.

Yes i deffiently won't beat around the bush about this, i'm just a little upset and disappointed about not getting role, as i believed i acted out the role play well and what an experience customer assistant would of done who works at m&s would of done in my experience.

As someone said, maybe i got turned down for the role as there probably was a better candidate then me, but because they didn't tell me a reason why i didn't get through this will leave a question mark for me personally.

I will put this aside as just a learning curve, i am determined to find a part time job whilst balancing my college education as i'm really looking forward to being able to get a car and to pay for my insurance. I believe royal mail will be recruiting soon and i'm guessing a lot more stores would be too very soon, so i will be having a good out when the opportunity arrives.

I think i will take the incident about my previously role with them further though as i believe there is a strong case.

Im not looking a compensation claim if i'm honest, i am just looking for justice to be done for the way i was treated which in the end forced me to hand in my notice.

Thanks

saintjammyswine wrote: »

OK, my point being that there may well be no discrimination, there were simply other people who were potentially better at the job than you.

Sometimes you don't get told why you didn't get the job, sometimes the employer will give excellent feedback. There will be reasons but if they didn't tell you what they were then you can either review what you did, honestly and critique it, self assessing or, if you did everything you could then chalk it down to experience and move on.

My post wasn't meant to be flippant, just saying that it is not likely to be a sinister reason behind the decision. Not saying it doesn't happen though and if you really feel there is something more behind it then absolutely fight it but be very sure about it first.

I fully understand what your saying now, yes, i think i will just put this down as just a bad experience, a learning curve really. I won't put this as a chip on my shoulders. Will make sure i keep on trying & trying.

Carl31 wrote: »

im not sure blaming your skin colour everytime something goes wrong is going to do you many favours in life

do you really think a high profile company like M+S would turn down good candidates for illegal reasons? theres not one hint of racism in what you say, yet thats your conclusion

even if they did employ you, how long would it be before you had then over some attempting legal case for something you didnt agree with 'because youre black?'

If you would kindly go through my post again, i made a little point - saying that i could have been turned down due to the store which majority is shopped by customers from a white ethnic background and due to that, i believe this could be a factor i was turned down, maybe because i wouldn't fit in.

That's unfair to say that - No i wouldn't never bring the race card in when a situation doesn't go my way or something bad happens, unfortunately, on both of these occasions, i believe due to the colour of my skin, i was treated unfairly. - Just an opinion of mines.

Sorry if i have missed any of anyone's feedback on this, the multi quote system is playing up a little

Jarndyce

MDW wrote: »

I think i will take the incident about my previously role with them further though as i believe there is a strong case.

I would think very carefully before doing this also. You would be too late for any legal case, so again, there is little to be gained by taking it any further at this stage.

MDW

Emmzi wrote: »

Um, I think the entirety of the first post suggests the OP would do this, unless there actually is some evidence of racism we are not being told about.

Sorry, your completely wrong about this, i would advise you to read my post again fully, - I did make a point about the location of the store, and the ethnic background of the customer base that a majority use the store, day in, day out.

I'm not being rude here at all. If you were to meet me in real life, you would be really shocked on how nice, friendly and polite i am.

Loanranger wrote: »

It's normal to feel disappointed and frustrated when a rejection comes along and I fully understand how you feel. Bringing your ethnic background into the equation here is unwarranted, I have read your post carefully and there is no evidence of racial discrimination. You do yourself no favours by accusing an employer of turning you down because you're black. Your attitude is a major stumbling block to your progress. Instead of placing the blame onto the employer, you need to accept that you did not get it right on the day. That's not to suggest you won't get it right at the next interview but your attitude is standing in your way at the moment. I hope you can get it right and go forward. If you persist in blaming everyone else for this you will not progress.
One bad interview will not hold you back, there will be other opportunities, but only if you accept responsibility. Part of being an adult is accepting responsibility for our own actions and dealing sensibly with the outcomes and learning from mistakes. You are still young at 18 and you need to learn this.

I believe i have strong grounds to bring the ethnic background card in to it. I did everything that i should of done with the materials i had with me in place. They even took away the papers which had useful information on it which i could of used in the role play - I could offered an alternative cake which was on the role play paper but because of the heat of the moment, and i didn't have it with me due to them taking this away from me, i didn't offer this.

but only if you accept responsibility. Part of being an adult is accepting responsibility for our own actions and dealing sensibly with the outcomes and learning from mistakes. You are still young at 18 and you need to learn this.

I stopped reading when i saw this. This is way off the mark. What responsibility did i needed to have taken from this, and what mistakes did i make from this? I made no errors and im not responsible for what has happened. Yes if i didn't do what was required of me in the role play that i would of been accounted for nothing making the right choices but im confidently that i did make all the right choices.

I don't have a chip on my shoulders - I will take this as an experience i will learn from. I will know know that when applying for a job, don't expect the best, and what to expect when working in a work place.

WestonDave

Could it simply be that you were too generous in the role play - had your scenario been real, presumably M&S would have been left with a pre-ordered unsaleable cake arriving later in the day/the next day, and no money towards it. Had you used a bit more initiative and offered say a 10% discount the store would only have been 10% out of pocket instead of 100%. (I find it really ironic that you felt unable to offer a small discount because no manager was around, but quite at ease offering a 100% discount!). Alternative options might have been to offer a small discount if she came back to collect tommorow, or maybe get it delivered to her.

Race is not something I have personal experience of, but I think personally its something to be used with extreme caution - unless you are pretty certain you were unquestionably the best candidate and only racism turned the issue against you, then raising this will just get someone's back up and potentially backfire against the next black candidate. Its not clear to me that you were that likely to get the job and so you need to think carefully whether its worth making a fairly unpleasant allegation.

Emmzi

MDW wrote: »

Sorry, your completely wrong about this, i would advise you to read my post again fully, - I did make a point about the location of the store, and the ethnic background of the customer base that a majority use the store, day in, day out.

I'm not being rude here at all. If you were to meet me in real life, you would be really shocked on how nice, friendly and polite i am.

And you also had a rant about "no one gives us black kids a break." Sweeping generalisations are not helpful in employment law. Your statement may or may not be true. But what you are lacking is evidence. Your opinion is not evidence. Similarly you thinking the store discriminated against you is not evidence.

I don't think I said you were rude. I am however saying you can't go throwing accusations without evidence. Feminism got great results by having data, not opinion. A bit of a way to go still, but... similar discriminatory position.

Good luck with the christmas applications.

MDW

Jarndyce wrote: »

I would think very carefully before doing this also. You would be too late for any legal case, so again, there is little to be gained by taking it any further at this stage.

I believe i would be in a better position if i had made a case for it as soon as i left, or a few week later, but there's no denying that M&S offered me a position in which i was 2 years young for. Making it an illegal contract.

I wasn't moaning about doing the work as im happy to do work as im looking to make myself better and knowning the cash i spent i have earned it. I have never moaned about the work i was doing, but looking back now, i don't see why i should let m&s get away with this, i was treated like crap, i was bullied, the manager didn't do anything about it, and i suffered back pain for all the heavy loads i was handling, all this was a huge factor in me having to hand in my notice.

I would hate to be signing on this time next year, i just feel trampy and embarrassed if this were to be the case, but this is different for many who are signing on, they cannot work due their curcumstances. The money is not enough either. For the greater things i want to do in life, signing on will not make be able to achieve this. :rotfl:

Perygl

MDW wrote: »

Anyway, the role play started when she confronted me, saying that she has ordered a cake, and she has come into the store to collect it, - me acting out the role play, i asked her details and pretending to look it up on the system. - I told her it hasn't arrived in the store, i did apologize to her about this and explained that this is was our fault and i was ready to offer her a full refund.

She accepted to have a full refund - I processed it, and that was it.

a) The fictional company lost a customer/a sale when you gave her a refund.

b) As mentioned above, the customer was left to look for alternatives when you didn't provide her with any.

TBH just giving a refund doesn't seem like 'above and beyond' service to me - I think that's what M&S look for in the roleplay. Were you given cards with information like numbers of 'local' stores and different cakes and decorations?

Also I'm surprised they didn't give you feedback. I had an interview with them and they said the company was big on feedback.