Fischer Storage Heaters

lstar337

anthropologist wrote: »

Does anybody know how many times companies like Fischer Futureheat can have advertising standards adjudications for misleading advertising before more action is taken by trading standards?

Other than stopping the adverts from being used, I don't think there is any other action.

Truthful1

We had a visit from a Fischer engineer. He talked to us about the heating technology. There was no price list, no prices. It was becoming awkward. We asked about prices and he flashed an astronomical price at us. We were shocked. He then asked for a very large on the spot deposit to lock in the discounted price he had given us, with nothing written down.
Had we done this, or even given him one penny, we would have been committed to the full amount since the product was 'made specially for us' and we had no right to cancel.
There are no prices available. The salesmen are self-employed and on commission The sale is all about getting you to understand the technicalities and to agree that the product is innovative. No prices, then high prices then a discount, then if that fails another discount.
I have noticed that there are very few independent reviews about anything to do with this company, no mention of pricing or efficiency, which is par for the course with any product review.

Truthful1

There was no price list, no prices. It was becoming awkward.

Smiley_Dan

Truthful1 wrote: »

I am am sure this post will be removed by Fischer, and have noticed that there are very few negative reviews about anything to do with this company, which is strange, and only positive ones posted by the salesmen posing as customers.

How will Fischer remove a post on the MSE forums? They have no control. If that were found to be the case, a lot of people would stop using MSE.

Truthful1

I found this post on another site. It is long but may help.

My father agreed to purchase an electric heater from a salesman who visited his home on 20 June. The call by the salesman was not cold as my father had invited him. My father signed a purchase order form on the 20 June and paid a deposit of £500 in cash with the balance of £810 being due on delivery. Delivery is due on 17 July. On the front of the form it states “This is a firm purchase order. Goods are manufactured to order and not supplied on approval”. Nowhere on the front of the form does it mention a right to cancel. On the reverse of the form it states as the first item under the heading “Terms of sale” the following: “The customer has the right to cancel this agreement up to 7 days from the date of contract by sending a written notice of cancellation to: XXXXX XXXXX Wanborough House,XXXXX Wootton Bassett, SN4 7EQ.” There is no cancellation form provided and no reference to the terms and conditions on the reverse of the form appears on the front of it.
My father would like to cancel the order because, having received third party advice, he believes the product is not suitable for him. Having seen the notice on the front of the purchase order about the order being “firm” he believed he could not cancel it. He only discovered the right of cancellation on the rear of the form after 7 day from the date he signed.
My father has oil fired central heating and was looking for a cheaper heat source. I did not know this before he entered the contract to buy the electric heater, and as an engineer, I would have told him that oil is much cheaper than electricity. I wrote a detailed report for him demonstrating this fact. It seems to me he has been sold a product that will cost him a lot more than oil to run despite the leaflet saying it is economical. I proved that oil is cheaper assuming the heater were run on off-peak electricity but my father does not have economy-7 installed! On-peak electricity costs twice as much as economy-7 so it will be more than double the running cost for the same heater.
I know that my father's intention was to save money so I cannot imagine he would have bought the heater otherwise. I have the sales leaflet in front of me. It says "Replace your night storage heaters with Fischer low input, slimline, smart storage heaters. Use less, save more ..." It also makes a claim of any energy saving of 40% but only by replacing your existing storage heater with their product. It mentions nothing about being cheaper than other heat sources.
I have now spoken to my father. He has told me that the salesperson told him the heater would be cheaper to run than the existing oil fired central heating system. He is very clear on this fact and would not have signed the purchase contract otherwise. My mother was also present when this claim was made by the salesperson.
I believe this is a gross misrepresentation of the product especially in view of the fact that the salesperson did not ask whether off-peak electricity would be used to run it.
From official performance figures, my father's oil-fired boiler has an efficiency of 85%, each litre of oil has a heating value of 10.52 kWh and the current price of heating oil is 63.42 pence per litre. This means that the cost per kWh is 63.4/(.85x10.52) = 7.1 pence.
The current price of off-peak electricity from my father's supplier is 7.77 pence per kWh. However, my father does not have off-peak electricity and the current price of ordinary rate electricity my father pays is 16.68 pence per kWh. This means the heater will cost 2.35 times the cost of heating provided by his existing oil-fired system.
In the face of it there is no right to cancel the order as the cooling off period has passed.
You can write and ask for the contract to be cancelled on the basis that it was entered into on the basis of a misrepresentation by the salesperson and set out what was said and all of the energy efficiency information that you have given me. You should ask for the contract to be cancelled in the basis of the misrepresentation and say that if they do not agree you will report them to trading standards and ofgen. You should ask for the deposit to be repaid within 7 days and state that if it is not then you will reclaim the money via the county court system.
If Ofgen do not deal with this kind of complaint then they should be able to put you in the right direction of the relevant trade body or association to which you can complain.
14 days would be standard practice for a business to give a consumer. As you are the consumer then the county court would expect a business to resolve an issue without undue delay. If you would prefer to give 14 days notice then that is fine too.

lstar337

Smiley_Dan wrote: »

How will Fischer remove a post on the MSE forums? They have no control. If that were found to be the case, a lot of people would stop using MSE.

Fischer already asked for a lot of posts to be removed from this very thread, and they were. MSE most likely didn't want the court action threatened.

It does happen, and a lot of people who contributed vast amounts of information on the technology (myself included) were very unhappy about it!

Truthful1

jalexa wrote: »

I'd like to know how much they cost. Any idea?

The price will be between £3-5K for a couple of heaters.
There is no cooling off period. Once you say yes, since they are 'specially made for you', the £500-£700 cash deposit for two heaters holds the approximately £5,000 'discounted price' and commits you to the full amount.
The sales people are self employed, and the company's job ad tells them to expect to make between £75k and £100k a year. This is entirely possible, since their job ad stated that they are provided with three qualified leads a day.
From their product ad, what I have read, and my experiences, mostly seniors who cut out coupons posted in newspapers and invite the sales people into their homes. If they just sell one qualified person a day, (meaning they know the person can write a check, needs the product and will be the type of person who can be convinced to sign there and then), for five days a week and get say £500 for each sale, then they can make the £100k annum. I do not know but am guessing that the amount they ask you for in a cash deposit might well be their commission. They then pass the high interest 'pay next year' commitment along to the finance department. If you are over 83 you are lucky, since you won't qualify for that, but beware anyone else over 18 in the room, who can sign on the dotted line.
If the company really believes in its product, the innovative technology and the way it can save people so much on their utility bills, then there is no need to use these underhanded sales techniques.
I would love to hear from anyone who has had a visit from an 'engineer' and then asked if they could think about it, without closing the deal on the spot.

Smiley_Dan

lstar337 wrote: »

Fischer already asked for a lot of posts to be removed from this very thread, and they were. MSE most likely didn't want the court action threatened.

It does happen, and a lot of people who contributed vast amounts of information on the technology (myself included) were very unhappy about it!

That's worrying.

Have MSE provided reasons why they don't want court action "threatened"? After all, anyone can threaten anyone for "court action".

Apologies for disrupting the thread but I want to know if there's much point hanging around if such censorship goes on.

st999

Not only F P asks for posts to be removed that they do not like. I know someone that have had posts removed by a TLA that begins with B and Ends in S

Smiley_Dan

LOL at one of their "technical" pages (http://www.fischerfutureheat.com/gas-and-oil.html) :

To get 1kW of heat from a typical fire you need to burn 2.5 to 3kW of gas. With a typical gas price of 3p this equates to 9p per kWH with huge waste through chimneys or flue.

ಠ_ಠ