Advice needed - potential disagreements with my landlord!

Becks5000

Hi,

We rent privately, we gave our landlord 2 months notice that we were moving out in mid November. She came round the other evening (with only a few hours notice may I add) and inspected the property with a decorator and she has since written us a letter of what she expects to be fixed before we leave. There are a few things where we are unsure as to where we stand. Please can you advise?

· The flush button on the toilet broke; she expects us to replace the part and re-fit it. I was under the impression the landlord was responsible for maintaining essentials like the toilet. We did not vandalise it, it just stopped working.
· There is a tile missing from the roof of our porch, this happened when we were locked out and 1 tile was knocked off when my partner climbed on it to climb through the window. She wants us to replace the tile (which is fair enough, we have it anyway) and she wants a professional roofer to check that the structure hasn’t been damaged. We would have to pay for this inspection. I personally think that this a bit overboard, but is she within her rights to demand this?
· There is mould on the bathroom ceiling. We are happy to bleach, prime and paint it but she seems keen on using HER decorator to do it, and we would have to put money towards it although she has not said how much yet as she is waiting for a quote. Can she insist that we use her decorator to do it? My father is a painter and decorator and would do it for free. Also who is responsible for the cost? I’m happy to contribute but I don’t think that it should all be down to us. The bathroom doesn’t have enough ventilation which is not our fault.
· There are a few floor tiles she wants replacing. She has spare tiles but she wants us to pay for the labour. Again – my father can do this for free no problem. Do we have to use her contact?

I get the impression that she doesn’t trust us to sort it out properly ourselves. But if I can save money by using family then we’d obviously much rather do that.

I would really appreciate anyone’s input who has experience in this, as I don’t want to respond to her requests until I’ve done a bit of research first,

Many Thanks,

Becky

The_Drama_Llama

Do you have an inventory from when you moved in? Signed by you and the landlord (pref with pictures).

Are you in England or Scotland? Is your deposit protected in the relevant scheme?

Benji

Your key obligation is to return the property in the same condition as when you took it on (less fair wear and tear).

• Loo button - imho, fair wear and tear
• Roof tile - yes, you pay to have it fixed and it is then returned in the same condition so far as you are concerned. If she want's to go to the expense of checking that - it's her decision.
• Bathroom - You could argue that you are not responsible for anything bar cleaning with bleach. You'd have a good chance at arbitration/court of winning with that argument. However, if you are willing to clean and re-paint, then again you are returning in the same condition. During the tenancy, you can use your choice of workmen. Once the tenancy is over, she can choose (or charge you & not have it done even).
• Floor Tiles - as above, you can use your choice of workman to restore any damage - but are you sure you are liable for the floor tile damage?

Of course your landlord may not agree with my interpretation of your situation, in which case you may need to dispute their proposed deductions with the deposit company (or sue). The deposit company (or a judge) is likely to work to the same principles as outlined above.

What does the initial inventory say about the condition of the areas that are an issue?

This article explains how one TDS arbitrator views cases. http://www.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/index.php?page=magazine&id=411 Okay the site has prevented me posting the link. Look for a site called propertyhawk and use their search function to find "Tenancy Deposits Arbitrators view"

G_M

Becks5000 wrote: »

Hi,

We rent privately, we gave our landlord 2 months notice that we were moving out in mid November. She came round the other evening (with only a few hours notice may I add) and inspected the property with a decorator and she has since written us a letter of what she expects to be fixed before we leave. Useful! Far better than getting a shock after you've left. At least this way you can find cost-effective ways to fix things if necessaryThere are a few things where we are unsure as to where we stand. Please can you advise?

· The flush button on the toilet broke; she expects us to replace the part and re-fit it. I was under the impression the landlord was responsible for maintaining essentials like the toilet. We did not vandalise it, it just stopped working.If it just stopped working, landlady should fix - I'm surprised you didn't write to her asking for it to be fixed when it stopped working though. Would have put you in a stronger position if she claims you broke it and also saved you pouring endless buckets down the loo!
· There is a tile missing from the roof of our porch, this happened when we were locked out and 1 tile was knocked off when my partner climbed on it to climb through the window. She wants us to replace the tile (which is fair enough, we have it anyway) and she wants a professional roofer to check that the structure hasn’t been damaged. We would have to pay for this inspection. I personally think that this a bit overboard, but is she within her rights to demand this? You broke the tile 0 you fix it. A tile will cost you £1 from a scrapyard. She wants a professional roofer to check? She pays.
· There is mould on the bathroom ceiling. Because.....? If due to you not opening windows/ventilating - your fault. If a structural cause, her responsibility. Hard to prove either way We are happy to bleach, prime and paint it You've got a month in hand. Make it good. If when she re-inspects at check out it looks fine, she cannot deduct from your deposit. Take photos in case of dispute! but she seems keen on using HER decorator to do it, and we would have to put money towards it although she has not said how much yet as she is waiting for a quote. Can she insist that we use her decorator to do it?No. See above. But you must do a 'good job'. My father is a painter and decorator and would do it for free. Also who is responsible for the cost? See above. Cause....?I’m happy to contribute but I don’t think that it should all be down to us. The bathroom doesn’t have enough ventilation which is not our fault.
· There are a few floor tiles she wants replacing.Again, why? Did you break them? She has spare tiles but she wants us to pay for the labour. Again – my father can do this for free no problem. Do we have to use her contact?No. You must leave the floor in the condition when you moved in. Provided you (or dad) do a good job, that's fine. If you do a bodge job, she can charge you to make it good.

I get the impression that she doesn’t trust us to sort it out properly ourselves. But if I can save money by using family then we’d obviously much rather do that.

Becky

as above.................

Becks5000

Thanks so much for all your input, you've helped but my mind at rest a little!

Just to clarify,

• I am in England and the deposit is held by an independant deposit Scheme.
• We have signed an inventory, without pictures.
• We told the landlady the toilet flusher broke as soon as it happened. A few texts were exchanged about it, but nothing official in writing as we have always sorted things out over the phone/ texts previously. I said we could make do as we could flush it another way and to be honest never chased it up, neither did she. The contract says she is responsible for 'the installations of the property for the supply of water, sewage and sanitation (including basins, sinks, sanitary conveniences)
• We are happy to replace the tile on the roof. My Dad has just told me he has a roofer friend who will do it for free if she wants a professional.
• There is mould because there is only 1 small window in the bathroom. Last winter there were 5 living in the house, shower was often used 4 times a day, the condensation never cleared despite window being open after each shower. It was also a bitterly cold winter too so we couldnt be expected to keep window open constantly.
• There are 2 cracked tiles in the kitchen which are our fault after dropping a bowl and a glass.

I will reply to her letter tomorrow then and be sure to take pictures of everything we do.

Becky

irenee

She should not be inspecting the property at this stage and most certainly not trying to make you repair / replace / clean at this point in time

There is nothing to stop you living in the most utter chaos / sink full of mouldy dishes / missing light bulbs / skanky carpets / etc - whatever turns you on (or off!!!!) :rotfl:

It is the condition of the property when you actually leave that counts - and of course you will have it all hunky dory by then - bathroom ceiling clean and white; no roof tiles missing; it is not your responsibility to have anything inspected :whistle:

The toilet flusher is certainly her responsibility - make sure you have copies of the Emails to hand; the kitchen tiles may be chargable to you - but again if you can replace them before leaving that is enough - though I would say this is fair wear and tear

Take plenty of pictures and be absolutely certain that a proper inventory inspection occurs on leaving - with you present (personally I would have another person present as a safeguard as well)

Videoing or similar would be useful and show her that you are not going to be 'done down' - fair wear and tear is something a lot of landlords have trouble assimilating - some I suspect seem to think that tenants should live at arms reach from the walls / floors / cupboards / kitchen equipment / and definitely showers

Becks5000

Ok this is the letter I sent to the landlord:

I've only included the sections relevant to my issues:
___________________________________________________
Thanks for your comments,

Obviously to keep costs down as much as possible we would prefer to use our family members to do the tiling and the bathroom. My Dad is a professional Tiler and Painter & Decorator, so we will take care of the bathroom (eg. Bleaching, priming, Painting etc) and if you could let us know where the tiles are that would be great.

I have a family friend who is a roofer who can replace the tile and check the structure for free too. I am happy to take pictures and get paperwork if you require.
__________________________________________________________________________

And this is the response back:
________________________________________________________________________
I understand that you would like friends and family to repair things and help out but I cannot allow any unauthorised works as have no guarantee of that work to be done satisfactorily. Please do not allow anyone to work on the bathroom or the porch roof. I want independent professional workers so that am insured and have a good finish throughout my home. I am sorry but I do not wish to allow other people recommended by you to work on my property. I have workers that I trust and have used over the last couple of years. I simply cannot allow strangers to work on my home as I do not know their qualifications or standard of work. Just as a for instance, I now read in your letter that your dad does painting and decorating? so how is it that all that you were going to do is just paint over the damp with a couple of coats of anti mould paint? Did you ask you dad for advice or have you asked him to come over already? I am sorry but a quick paint to cover it up temporarily will not fix the problem. If his father does this kind of work as a job, then why have you not asked for his advice? Well I mean why would you do a proper job, its not your home? I do understand that it is not in your interest to do things the correct way, especially when it takes longer to do and is tedious etc. Its only after getting a qualified professional in that I realise the extent of what needs to be done. I hope you see where I am coming from ? I need a thorough fix to this once and for all so that in two months time I don't have the same problem re-occuring.
_______________________________________________________

She has agreed to pay for and fix the toilet flusher so that's something!

I would like to add that when we first reported the mould she came over with her Dad, looked at it and left us with a paint and asked us to paint over it. We didn't get round to it as the paint went missing, we have now brought more paint and now all of a sudden this appears to be a big issue.

How on Earth do I respond to that?

Thanks

Becky

Cissi

You actually shouldn't have written that letter - as you've been advised above, it's none of her business what the place looks like now; she is only entitled to inspect it after you leave, and assuming that you've made things good by then, again it's none of her business how this was done. As for "I simply cannot allow strangers to work on my home" well it isn't her home, it's yours, while you're living there.

I don't know if you've dug a hole for yourself by giving her as much information as you have, but I think you should send another letter, much more succinct, with no details of what you propose to do to fix any damage. Just state that by law it's YOUR home until the end of your tenancy and that any queries regarding possible damage will have to be raised following the checkout inspection, as per normal procedure. Leave it at that and don't allow her to come back for further inspections until then.

AFK_Matrix

So how else is she thinking the mould will get fixed? Is she going to remove the ceiling plaster and re-plaster it?!!! Just state that you have identified the problem, poor ventilation in the bathroom (maybe she might like to have a look at this to save further problems in the future!). So bleaching the mold and repainting the area will get rid of the issue. And as others have said as you are within you tenancy at the moment you can choose who you get in to do the work and she can't argue about it.

Also how does she know that you have not asked your dad for advice on the mold issue?

Becks5000

I really didn't want to have to take the harsh and succint approach because we've had a really good relationship throughout the tenancy, my mistake!

The issus she has is that when she came round she commented on the bathroom and my partner offered to paint over the mould. I never mentioned anything to my Dad at that point as I didn't think we needed to. It's a simple paint job that anyone can do.

After this a painter/ decorator that she knew said it would need more than just painting - it would need bleaching/ priming and painting. Once we knew this I then got my Dad involved and asked if he could do it.

To be honest to make my life eaiser i'm considering getting quotes off her and if it's not to bad just to take the hit, but I don't know how this would look if, after I have the quotes, I decide it's too expensive and want to do it our way.

Cissi

Becks5000 wrote: »

To be honest to make my life eaiser i'm considering getting quotes off her and if it's not to bad just to take the hit, but I don't know how this would look if, after I have the quotes, I decide it's too expensive and want to do it our way.

Of course that's your choice, but if you go down that route you're making it much more difficult to avoid paying for things that you really have no obligation to pay for. Sounds like this is an accidental landlady who doesn't understand the business of letting - it's worrying that she repeatedly refers to the property as "my home"...