Any experiences with Electric Showers?

Owain_Moneysaver

FireWyrm wrote: »

GDB, I don't understand. When you turn on the hot tap, the water takes some time to heat first of all and then comes out as a medium trickle...how is this enough pressure to lift hot water another 5 feet into the air for a shower? ...

Looking at the documents for the combi, it says 26.3kw heat output, 12.2 bar max burner and 8 bar max water pressure. Water flow rate is 9.8 its/min. It's a Baxi 80E

You are confusing pressure with flow. The pressure will be the same from both hot and cold, but the boiler is reducing the flow so it's a trickle from the bath-tap. Turn down the cold tap so there's the same amount of water coming out as comes out of the hot tap, then put your thumb over it and you should get the same amount of 'squirt'.

The electric shower will be about one-third as powerful as the combi - and electricity is about 3x the price per kW as gas, so you'll be paying more to run it as well.

The only compelling reason IMO for getting an electric shower would be to provide a back-up for the combi.

Contessa

In my experience (soft water area) electric instant heat showers have lasted 12+ years. Quite adequate temperature and flow rate for me. Similarly impressed when visiting friends.
We also had an electric "power shower" ( which drew hot water from the immersion heater)-excellent, but only lasted about 9 years.
Last year we had installed a new upstairs bathroom with a shower/bath tap mixer - this was absolutely hopeless in providing enough hot water for a shower upstairs ( bath was fine but not enough pressure for a shower). Then we replaced the old gas boiler with a combi one and the result is a fabulous hot and powerful shower ( superior to previous electric power shower and electric instant heat shower). In fact so powerful that I'm rather afraid to use it in case of leaks!
I've gone on a bit, but in short, modern electric showers are good. Hope this helps.

GDB2222

FireWyrm wrote: »

GDB, I don't understand. When you turn on the hot tap, the water takes some time to heat first of all and then comes out as a medium trickle...how is this enough pressure to lift hot water another 5 feet into the air for a shower? I thought the electric shower heats hot water immediately and since the cold comes out like a pressure hose, you end up with hot and strong feed?

I'm worried now. I don't know what to do. I can return the shower to B&Q obviously, but all I want is a reasonable amount of hot water from a shower, Im not fussed how it happens. What is likely to happen if we try to fit the electric shower? Will it even work?

Looking at the documents for the combi, it says 26.3kw heat output, 12.2 bar max burner and 8 bar max water pressure. Water flow rate is 9.8 its/min. It's a Baxi 80E

A 26.3 kw combi boiler will give you nearly 3 times as much hot water as a 9.5 kw electric shower. Provided there's a reasonable pressure of water, it's the power input (electric or gas) that limits how strong a shower you get.

Put it another way: The electric one can give you a very powerful shower, but the water will be pretty much stone cold. If you want a hot shower, there's only so much water that a 9.5 kw element can heat, so you'll have to restrict how fast the water comes out to almost a trickle.

As for the combi only providing a trickle, there may be something wrong. It's impossible to tell from where I am sitting. However, bear in mind that that trickle coming through a shower head may feel like a reasonable shower, whilst it may take ages to fill a bath. Combis work off the mains pressure, so there's no obvious reason why the water rate is just a trickle. Can you stick a jug under the tap and check how long it actually takes to fill?

Your boiler is rated to provide 9.8 litres of hot water per minute. That's okay for a shower, but it could easily take 15 minutes to fill a bath. More if it's a large bath.

I'm convinced that you are wasting your money installing an electric shower if you have a combi, as a combi is so much better, provided it's working ofc. I agree with Owain's final comment though.

mustrum_ridcully

I'd advise FireWyrm to go with the electric option for one reason only: it sounds like their combi could be on the way out. If we have a bad winter again and it dies (which is when it's most likely to) at least they'll have a source of hot water with which to wash themselves. Gas engineers would be rushed off their feet so it could take easily take a week or more to get it replaced.

FireWyrm

Thank you all. I've just spent a few minutes running a couple of experiments on the hot tap in the bathroom. It took 6 seconds to begin delivering hot water and it delivered 11 litres of hot water in a minute. We then hooked up an old plastic mixer shower and held it up in the air and the pressure appears to be very good and the water hot. It seems I've misunderstood because the cold tap which is the stronger of the two delivers the pressure, but the hot is hot enough to heat the overall flow. On that basis then, I'll be returning the electric shower to B&Q and buying a good quality thermostatic mixer instead. Does anyone have any suggestions as to make or model?

Thanks to GBD who pointed out the difference in cost between electricity and gas, I hadn't thought of that...not very MSE of me I know.

Overall, although the combi is old and needs replacing, it think that everyone is probably right, replace the boiler for a more powerful one next summer, but fit a more easily arranged mixer in the bathroom instead. With that saving, we will have more money in the pot to pay for tiles and extras such as a towel rail to replace the existing radiator.

GDB2222

Do you definitely need to move the bath in order to be able to have a shower fitted? You can't just fit the shower to the wall at the end away from the taps, or above the taps, or summat?

£900 for the work you mentioned before sounds an ok price, but I'd find another plumber as he did not explain how combis work and that you didn't need an electric shower at all. I wouldn't trust him.

twodogsandacat

You should def get more quotes.

Different plumbers will have different suggestions for what you could do.

FireWyrm

Thanks GDB

No doubt about having to move the bath. Basically, the bathroom is under the stairs leading to the 4th floor. The foot of the bath comes under the stairs and the head with the taps is hanging in space, not against a solid wall. The bathroom sink is against the wall where we need the bath, so the plan is to swap the position of the bath and sink so that the sink is under the stairs and the bath against the outside wall providing a solid mounting for the shower.

I agree that don't trust the plumber, but to be fair, it's always caveat emptor and now I do understand the differences between the shower types, i don't feel so exposed. He's a plumber, perhaps I didn't ask the right questions, so how could he provide the correct answers. I'll try for some other quotes, but so far, our local plumbers seem to be rushed off their feet.

GDB2222

FireWyrm wrote: »

Thanks GDB

No doubt about having to move the bath. Basically, the bathroom is under the stairs leading to the 4th floor. The foot of the bath comes under the stairs and the head with the taps is hanging in space, not against a solid wall. The bathroom sink is against the wall where we need the bath, so the plan is to swap the position of the bath and sink so that the sink is under the stairs and the bath against the outside wall providing a solid mounting for the shower.

I agree that don't trust the plumber, but to be fair, it's always caveat emptor and now I do understand the differences between the shower types, i don't feel so exposed. He's a plumber, perhaps I didn't ask the right questions, so how could he provide the correct answers. I'll try for some other quotes, but so far, our local plumbers seem to be rushed off their feet.

It might be cheaper, much cheaper, to build a wall at the end where the taps are. Would that work for you? You need enough head height and so on.

FireWyrm

It is a plan we thought of. There are two main problems with it though. First, a wall would block too much light from the tiny bathroom window which is about A4 size, even if it was glass brick and I'm not convinced the ancient floorboards would take the weight. The second problem is headroom under the stairs. The bath is under the full rise of the stairs so there isn't enough room for a 5'8" woman to stand upright under a shower. DH and kids have no such problem :-)

We've had some good news though. Parents in law have also decided to remodel their bathroom and have offered their good quality mixer shower to us. We tore their hand off to accept the offer since this saves about another £180.

We figure to put the difference towards saving for a valiant boiler next year.

Thanks to all your help and suggestions.