Responsibility to claim for issues with Courier

amazoncat

Hi,

I'm hoping somebody might be able to point me in the direction of the facts on this one.

I recently sold my beloved Smeg fridge freezer through Preloved to help pay some bills.

A buyer from Nottingham contacted me offering the full asking price if they could find a courier to collect as I live in Norwich. I used a courier to get the fridge to me in the first place and happily agreed. They paid through PayPal and yesterday two men with a van came to collect it.

The buyer then phoned me this morning to say she had received the fridge and it was not in the advertised condition, it later followed that the fridge appeared to have been dropped and the courier told her he had collected it in this condition, which of course he hadn't.

I have sent the buyer copies of photographs I took prior to the sale, which show only minor cosmetic scuffs and scratches and a very recent engineer's report that states the only issue is with the fridge light. I have asked her to send me photographs of the damage.

My problem is that she is saying that I need to refund her the money and claim it back off the courier she organised (and whom I have no details for) as I was the seller.

Now common sense would suggest to me that the courier's contract is with her, not me and provided I can prove it was not damaged when it left my house I'm not responsible. Certainly this is the attitude I would have taken had anything happened to it en route to my house when I purchased it and arranged for a courier to collect.

Any clarification, particularly if you can point me in the direction of articles, websites etc. would be very greatly appreciated.

hermum

The contract with the courier is with the person who instructed them , in this case the buyer.
However, if the buyer opens a Paypal claim then they will no doubt be told to return the fridge tracked to you to get a full refund.
How are you going to be able to prove that the fridge wasn't damaged when it left your house, did the courier sign anything to say that it was cosmetically perfect?

amazoncat

I wasn't actually in the house, I had to get a friend in as I was at work but I have photographs meta tagged to a couple of days before (after the buyer payed) and the engineer's report, which might not be perfect but hopefully are enough to put up a good fight with PayPal if it comes to it.

I think she believes me that it happen in transit but she's realised that she's paid two dodgy men cash in hand and has no chance of getting the money off them for the damage.

If PayPal decide to side with her and make me issue a refund I've got no chance of getting anywhere with the couriers and I don't have £500 to give her back, especially as it wasn't my fault in any way.

MissGivings_2

'If PayPal decide to side with her and make me issue a refund I've got no chance of getting anywhere with the couriers and I don't have £500 to give her back, especially as it wasn't my fault in any way.'

But you are responsible.

You allowed the buyer to arrange a courier, but you as the seller are responsible for ensuring that the item is delivered undamaged to the buyer.

The photos were taken two days after the buyer bought the item but when the item was still in your house. You don't have proof that damage didn't happened after you took those pictures. And your friend didn't take pictures of the delivery guys with the fridge etc.

It is your responsibility to make a claim from the couriers, not the buyer's.

hermum

Unfortunately if she makes a claim with Paypal then they will refund & your account will be in the red until you pay it back. They won't take notice of pictures taken a few days before the courier collected.
I'd advise her to try & claim from the couriers.

hermum

MissGivings wrote: »

'If PayPal decide to side with her and make me issue a refund I've got no chance of getting anywhere with the couriers and I don't have £500 to give her back, especially as it wasn't my fault in any way.'

But you are responsible.

You allowed the buyer to arrange a courier, but you as the seller are responsible for ensuring that the item is delivered undamaged to the buyer.

The photos were taken two days after the buyer bought the item but when the item was still in your house. You don't have proof that damage didn't happened after you took those pictures. And your friend didn't take pictures of the delivery guys with the fridge etc.

It is your responsibility to make a claim from the couriers, not the buyer's.

The OP can't make a claim from the courier as she didn't have a contract with them, the buyer did.

MissGivings_2

hermum wrote: »

The OP can't make a claim from the courier as she didn't have a contract with them, the buyer did.

That's right and it's exactly why a seller should never allow a buyer to arrange a courier.

Obviously_the_best

But, hang on a minute here everybody, PayPal will want it returned tracked, I don't know about you but I don't know about a man with van that has full online tracking

scheming_gypsy

MissGivings wrote: »

'

You allowed the buyer to arrange a courier, but you as the seller are responsible for ensuring that the item is delivered undamaged to the buyer.

Isn't that only if you're shipping something? if the buyer arranged for somebody to collect it for them then aren't the 'couriers' accepting it on behalf of the buyer?

soolin

scheming_gypsy wrote: »

Isn't that only if you're shipping something? if the buyer arranged for somebody to collect it for them then aren't the 'couriers' accepting it on behalf of the buyer?

This is ebay/paypal so if buyer does a simple 'item was damaged on arrival' then seller must accept a return. MissGivings is absolutely right, this is why allowing a buyer to send a courier is a terrible idea as you lose control of the situation.

At least if seller arranges their own courier they retain the ability to persue the courier for losses or damage.

mikey72

It was sold through preloved, not ebay.