Northern rail parking ticket, what should i do? All info is included

Biggiet123

Hello

I returned to my car which was parked at the train station, which is owned/run by northern rail (free parking so no tickets machines)

What is the best procedure for disputing this/ignoring it.

Here is the information on the ticket.....

All my car details and time and place and £50 penalty

(4 boxes ticked) digital evidence captured, was not parked in marked bay, was not parked in a designated area, and was causing an obstruction

Payment: The penalty should be paid in full within 14 days of receipt of this notice, failure to comply will result in the registered owners details being requested from the DVLA, this action will result in a £20 administrative charge being levied. Cheques/postal orders should be made payable to northern rail ltd and must be endorsed on the reverse with your name, address and ref. Number and sent to DEBT RECOVERY &PROSECUTION UNIT, NORTHERN RAIL LIMITED FREEPOST NEA 3188 BRADFORD, BD1 1BR. If you wish to settle this penalty by telephone you can call xxxxxxxxxx

DISPUTE: no disputes can be settled over the phone. Disputes for liability to pay this penalty will only be accepted in a written statement sent to the above address within 14 days. If you are disputing the notice no further action will be taken until our investigations are completed and you are notified of our decision.

PENALTY FOR NON PAYMENT: railway bylaws made under section 219 of schedule 20 transport act 2000 by the strategic rail authority as preserved by clause (a) and (b) of the railways act 2005. BYELAWS 14 TRAFFIC SIGNS, CAUSING OBSTRUCTION AND PARKING. ( maximum penalty £1000)

BPA (member of the British ,parking association)

This is exactly what it says on the ticket, there are signs around the car park saying that a £50 fine will be charged if any of the rules are broken so to speak.

Although my car was parked slightly over the bay markings on the end of the row of spaces, it was in no way causing obstruction, and as for the designated area, that's what car parks are for,parking so i was in a designated area, so to my mind the only thing that I possibly did wrong was that I parked to far over the bay line.

Is this ticket valid and should I pay/dispute/ignore it

Please help

Thank you

vax2002

BPA says it all, its a bluff
IGNORE..

esmerobbo

I dont know I would like to see the PCN two things spring to mind. Using the word "Penalty" and the "£50" and no discount, which is the level for an official byelaw 14 obstruction offence. They are also quoting the highest level of penalty of £1000 which is a magistrates job!

Some official bodies are members of the BPA!

Of course they could be using official regulations to try to enforce their unofficial claptrap!

peter_the_piper

I think this is one for pepipoo.com. Op should copy both sides of any ticket and post on there. Obstruction is one of the few things normally covered by 14. See the stickies on pepipoo on how to post pics.

vax2002

The £20 administration fee is a dead give away.
This is just another fake bylaw ticket.
I would do the court in any case, no signs, no conditions, private land, its a minefield.
Many have rode out this bluff including myself, nothing happened except the usual ppc paper trail.

vax2002

esmerobbo wrote: »

Some official bodies are members of the BPA!

Name them and tell us what makes them official ?

Biggiet123

Unfortunatly there are signs up at the train station stating that if 'rules' are broken then you could be liable for a parking ticket/penalty.

I will take a picture of the signs tonight when i pick my car up and will also scan the ticket and post later today!!!

thank you for your help guys any more info would be great

cheers

Coupon-mad

Biggiet123 wrote: »

Unfortunatly there are signs up at the train station stating that if 'rules' are broken then you could be liable for a parking ticket/penalty.

I will take a picture of the signs tonight when i pick my car up and will also scan the ticket and post later today!!!

thank you for your help guys any more info would be great

cheers

As there are in most Supermarket car parks (although most no longer use the 'penalty' word). Doesn't make fake PCNs enforceable.

You won't be able to post links here, as a newbie, but you will be able to post it all on Pepipoo forums, who are the experts. Start a new topic there after registering and reading the FAQs (including 'how to post pictures') Show them a copy of the 'ticket' - minus the PCN number and car reg - and a picture of the signage:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=60

FWIW I have only ever seen one real Bylaws ticket on pepipoo in 3 or 4 years of posting there almost every day - and that was cancelled on appeal. Do not rush to 'appeal' it though, if pepipoo confirm it as a fake one then just ignore it as you would with any 'parking charge notice' from any private firm.

jlsmith_2

Byelaw 14
(2) No person in charge of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance shall
leave or place it on any part of the railway:
(i) in any manner or place where it may cause an
obstruction or hindrance to an Operator or any person using
the railway; or
(ii) otherwise than in accordance with any instructions issued by or
on behalf of an Operator or an authorised person.
(3) No person in charge of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance shall
park it on any part of the railway where charges are made for parking by an
Operator or an authorised person without paying the appropriate charge at
the appropriate time in accordance with instructions given by an Operator or
an authorised person at that place.

So section 2 relates to the placement of the car on the 'railway' - and in particular 2ii says that the way the car is parked must be in accordance with instructions given by an Operator. So if you park across the car park entrance or well outside a bay conceivably that might be caught by section 2, but I don't think this section can be used to claim a general adherence to all T&Cs.

Byelaw 14 (PCN)

(4) In England and Wales
(i) The owner of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance
used, left or placed in breach of Byelaw 14(1) to 14(3) may be
liable to pay a penalty as displayed in that area.
(ii) Without prejudice to Byelaw 14(4)(i), any motor vehicle, bicycle
or other conveyance used, left or placed in breach of Byelaw
14(1) to 14(3) may be clamped, removed, and stored, by or
under the direction of an Operator or authorised person.
(iii) The owner of the motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance
shall be liable to an Operator or an authorised person for the
costs incurred in clamping, removing and storing it provided
that there is in that area a notice advising that any vehicle
parked contrary to these Byelaws may be clamped, removed
and stored by an Operator or an authorised person and that
[/I]

The owner (note, not the driver) may be liable to pay a penalty AS DISPLAYED IN THE AREA. Please check if there is a 'penalty' displayed in the area. If not (under PPC rules there shouldn't be, as they're not allowed to claim penalties) then you're in the clear notwithstanding all the other valid points made above.

Biggiet123

jlsmith wrote: »

Byelaw 14
(2) No person in charge of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance shall
leave or place it on any part of the railway:
(i) in any manner or place where it may cause an
obstruction or hindrance to an Operator or any person using
the railway; or
(ii) otherwise than in accordance with any instructions issued by or
on behalf of an Operator or an authorised person.
(3) No person in charge of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance shall
park it on any part of the railway where charges are made for parking by an
Operator or an authorised person without paying the appropriate charge at
the appropriate time in accordance with instructions given by an Operator or
an authorised person at that place.

So section 2 relates to the placement of the car on the 'railway' - and in particular 2ii says that the way the car is parked must be in accordance with instructions given by an Operator. So if you park across the car park entrance or well outside a bay conceivably that might be caught by section 2, but I don't think this section can be used to claim a general adherence to all T&Cs.

Byelaw 14 (PCN)

(4) In England and Wales
(i) The owner of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance
used, left or placed in breach of Byelaw 14(1) to 14(3) may be
liable to pay a penalty as displayed in that area.
(ii) Without prejudice to Byelaw 14(4)(i), any motor vehicle, bicycle
or other conveyance used, left or placed in breach of Byelaw
14(1) to 14(3) may be clamped, removed, and stored, by or
under the direction of an Operator or authorised person.
(iii) The owner of the motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance
shall be liable to an Operator or an authorised person for the
costs incurred in clamping, removing and storing it provided
that there is in that area a notice advising that any vehicle
parked contrary to these Byelaws may be clamped, removed
and stored by an Operator or an authorised person and that
[/I]

The owner (note, not the driver) may be liable to pay a penalty AS DISPLAYED IN THE AREA. Please check if there is a 'penalty' displayed in the area. If not (under PPC rules there shouldn't be, as they're not allowed to claim penalties) then you're in the clear notwithstanding all the other valid points made above.

There are signs up saying that if 'rules' are broken then a penalty shall be given.

This being said, yes i did park slightly over the bay line, but i WAS NOT causing any obstruction(be it to a public footpath or the car park itself), I hadn't parked in 2 spaces as it was an end space, and i HAD parked in a designated area, the car park!!!

Do i contact them and say "i refuse to pay" or "I am disputing the charge" or do i ignore them???

Inflatable_Armadillo

Biggiet123 wrote: »

There are signs up saying that if 'rules' are broken then a penalty shall be given.

This being said, yes i did park slightly over the bay line, but i WAS NOT causing any obstruction(be it to a public footpath or the car park itself), I hadn't parked in 2 spaces as it was an end space, and i HAD parked in a designated area, the car park!!!

Do i contact them and say "i refuse to pay" or "I am disputing the charge" or do i ignore them???

Right, stop, take a breath and just heed some advice given above.

I suspect and think most would agree it feels and smells like a PPC speculative invoice but there is a very slim chance it might not be!

REMOVE any references or person details, reg of car etc before posting.

For anyone to confidently give you the advice you are looking for then we need to see the notice/invoice, both sides please, and the advice will come flying in!

You can't post pictures and links as a Newbie on here, so follow the advice from other posters and post here - http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=60 on a new thread.

You can then also come back here and post the link (just take away the www. bit, so we can all see it here too.

Trust me, as soon as you get that sorted, then you will have your answer very quickly on both forums.

I bet it will be....... IGNORE.... but lets check!