What do "Bodily Functions" & "Frequently through the day" really mean?

luminated

I am in the middle of preparing my case for my tribunal (but with a long time to wait ) and I keep reading these two things from the DWP.

But is a 'bodily function' to them something different to what it means to me. And where do they fully explain precisely what it means to a layperson? To me most activities need a combination of individual body parts, to function, to carry out an action - talking needs the brain, vocal chords and mouth.

'Frequently throughout the day' really should be explained by the DWP giving measurable explanation of time in total, or per point of care given, together with precisely what is the minimum number of times that constitutes 'frequently'.

Any help would be good and any references I can quote back in my evidence would also be good.

QuackQuackOops

luminated wrote: »

I am in the middle of preparing my case for my tribunal (but with a long time to wait ) and I keep reading these two things from the DWP.

But is a 'bodily function' to them something different to what it means to me. And where do they fully explain precisely what it means to a layperson? To me most activities need a combination of individual body parts, to function, to carry out an action - talking needs the brain, vocal chords and mouth.

'Frequently throughout the day' really should be explained by the DWP giving measurable explanation of time in total, or per point of care given, together with precisely what is the minimum number of times that constitutes 'frequently'.

Any help would be good and any references I can quote back in my evidence would also be good.

A bodily function, you know, like weeing and pooing. Do you need help to do these bodily functions?
As for "frequently throughout the day", it means just that; Frequently. Not once, not twice. Frequently.
You fill in the form in or prepare your tribunal according to YOUR needs, not to fit the criteria.
They can spot a "fitted case" a mile off.

luminated

QuackQuackOops wrote: »

A bodily function, you know, like weeing and pooing. Do you need help to do these bodily functions?
As for "frequently throughout the day", it means just that; Frequently. Not once, not twice. Frequently.
You fill in the form in or prepare your tribunal according to YOUR needs, not to fit the criteria.
They can spot a "fitted case" a mile off.

I happen to resent the DWP giving very scant description and expecting laypeople/claimants to be mind readers to understand what they are getting at. I need to take them to task, at a tribunal, and also intend to take my MP to task.

If the DWP took more time to outline their (hidden) requirements from the outset there would be considerably less claims.

Fitted case - NO NO NO - that is not the intention of my seeking help and I regret if this impression was given.

QuackQuackOops

luminated wrote: »

I happen to resent the DWP giving very scant description and expecting laypeople/claimants to be mind readers to understand what they are getting at. I need to take them to task, at a tribunal, and also intend to take my MP to task.

If the DWP took more time to outline their (hidden) requirements from the outset there would be considerably less claims.

Fitted case - NO NO NO - that is not the intention of my seeking help and I regret if this impression was given.

There are no hidden requirements.
1000's of people manage to fill out the forms, by themselves, without knowing any 'criteria', with an understanding of basic terminology (such as bodily function) and get awarded DLA first time without ever having to appeal.

I am not sure why you are having so much difficulty understanding what a bodily function is or what is meant by 'frequently' and to query the point to try and get it to 'fit' with what YOU think it means is not something you ought to do.

It is quite simple as I explained above. Do you need help with going to the toilet? Inserting tampons? That kind of thing. If you do, how frequently? Once a day? Twice a week? Three times a month?

Being obtuse about these definitions will only hamper your claim further I'm afraid.

saving_pennies

A quick goggle found this on bodily functions:
http://www.benefitsnow.co.uk/dlanotes/notesondaytimeattention.asp
http://www.benefitsnow.co.uk/dmakers/attentiondefinition.asp


As for what frequently means, I would agree with the OP - not once or twice but many times throughout day/night. Or indeed it could be so frequent that it is continuous.

Hope this is of help.

MrsManda

It may help you to read Chapter 61 of the DWP specialist guidance:
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/dmgch61.pdf
Though a lot of it is common sense and terms are not strictly defined because different things need to be taken into consideration. One of the complaints claimants make is that descriptors are too restrictive, then complain that others are not restrictive enough because definitions aren't defined.

Frequent or repeated
61138 “Frequent” means several times - not just once or twice1. Attention given three times should not automatically be taken to mean frequent -all the facts of the case should be considered. The attention must be required throughout the day.
1 R(A) 2/80 Appendix
61139 The ordinary definition of frequent is “occurring often or in close succession”. Whether attention is given frequently depends on the length of time which passes between each spell of attention.

Attention with bodily functions
61101 Attention is defined as some personal service of an active nature in connection with bodily functions, including breathing, dressing, drinking, eating, eliminating waste products, getting into or out of bed, hearing, seeing, sitting, sleeping, walking and undressing. It does not in general include cooking, shopping, keeping the house clean, or other domestic tasks which are commonly done by one person for the benefit of another1.

Examples of bodily functions for which attention may be required are in DMG 61120
- 61136. The list is not exhaustive, and DMs should use their own judgment in each case. Some functions considered on their own may need relatively little help but combined with others may bring a person within the scope of AA or DLA (care). Further guidance is available in the Handbook and the Adult Medical Guidance.

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/dmgch61.pdf

luminated

saving_pennies wrote: »

A quick goggle found this on bodily functions:
http://www.benefitsnow.co.uk/dlanotes/notesondaytimeattention.asp
http://www.benefitsnow.co.uk/dmakers/attentiondefinition.asp


As for what frequently means, I would agree with the OP - not once or twice but many times throughout day/night. Or indeed it could be so frequent that it is continuous.

Hope this is of help.

Thanks SP good summaries and very helpful. My fingers not good at Googling recently although you coud say I may of been Googling for the wrong thing :eek:

My search was to try and find DWP / Social Security / Directgov references which I didn't.

luminated

MrsManda wrote: »

It may help you to read Chapter 61 of the DWP specialist guidance:
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/dmgch61.pdf
Though a lot of it is common sense and terms are not strictly defined because different things need to be taken into consideration. One of the complaints claimants make is that descriptors are too restrictive, then complain that others are not restrictive enough because definitions aren't defined.

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/dmgch61.pdf

Thanks again today MrsManda for your help.

I just think it is a great shame the DLA is not set out in a 'layman friendly' brochure / fact sheet with clear and specific guidence. I am sure if it was it would save a lot of claims as the advice seems to be if in doubt go ahead and claim and see. Almost a cavalier - you never know you may be lucky.

Former_MSE_Andrea

Hi everyone

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Thank you!

cit_k

QuackQuackOops wrote: »

There are no hidden requirements.
1000's of people manage to fill out the forms, by themselves, without knowing any 'criteria', with an understanding of basic terminology (such as bodily function) and get awarded DLA first time without ever having to appeal.

I am not sure why you are having so much difficulty understanding what a bodily function is or what is meant by 'frequently' and to query the point to try and get it to 'fit' with what YOU think it means is not something you ought to do.

It is quite simple as I explained above. Do you need help with going to the toilet? Inserting tampons? That kind of thing. If you do, how frequently? Once a day? Twice a week? Three times a month?

Being obtuse about these definitions will only hamper your claim further I'm afraid.

But as you can see, your idea of what consitutes a bodily function is wrong, so its quite possible 1000's of other peoples idea of what it means is also wrong, and they are being denied a benefit they should be entitled to.