I have received a fine from UKPC

vax2002

Amazing that people on a money saving forum would advise paying a private and unlawful penalty to a bunch of crooks, liars and scam artists that are renowned for coming back and demanding more penalty's in late payment charges when your cheque gets left on the door mat a day or two and "arrives " late...

pogofish

Why don't you have a shufty round the parking board:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163

You will find many examples of the UKPC scam and the consistant advice for best results - IGNORE!

vaio

vax2002 wrote: »

Sorry disagree, the defence does not change, this is an unlawful penalty and not an actual account of losses, that is £0.

My thoughts….

I think the ignore advice normally is the way to go because they are trying to recover the money based on the driver entering into a contract with them which has the charges attached.

But, the only person they can contact is the registered keeper (via DVLC) and it might well be that the RK wasn’t driving at the time and so couldn’t have entered into the contract. For them to succeed with a claim they need to identify the driver and prove the driver entered into the contract. By ignoring them they can’t do either of these so any claim will fail.

However, in this case the OP has written the appeal letter and whilst we haven’t seen the exact wording you can be pretty sure it both identifies the driver and acknowledges that they overstayed the parking time they had paid for so I think parking company would win a court case as far as identity & existence of contract is concerned and you are then into arguing that the (I presume clearly stated) overstaying charge is somehow unlawful or unenforceable.

Small claims is a bit of a lottery and you need to balance the possible upside vs downside, upside is you don’t have to pay the £90 and you get your expenses, downside is you do have to pay the £90 and you get to pay their expenses and the court fees.

Having said all that I certainly wouldn’t pay until I got a formal letter before action and it might also be worth arguing that the £50 shouldn’t have increased to £90 whilst an appeal was in progress.

scheming_gypsy

danielvmn wrote: »

So what?

He didn't cause any damage to the private property or the landowner, he don't have to pay this ridiculous amount. Please, OP, don't pay this.

pretty sure there was a thread in the parking ticket section, not too long ago, where somebody lost in court after appealing a ticket.

wriggly

scheming_gypsy wrote: »

pretty sure there was a thread in the parking ticket section, not too long ago, where somebody lost in court after appealing a ticket.

Even if the PPC has definite proof of the identity of the driver, they will still struggle in court, because they have to prove that the amount requested represents actual costs incurred by the land-owner, not a penalty.

So, ignore everything, including debt collectors and solicitor's letters. In the very unlikely event that you receive a court notice, come back immediately and post on the Parking Fines forum on this site.

vax2002

You would only loose if you were stupid enough to start arguing over contractual terms, therefore admitting you actually are in a contract you have accepted, PPC are aware of this and have pressed through several stooge cases on the basis that the contract was entered in to and disputed, so the case was judged upon the merits of the contract which the defendant admitted to the judge of been involved in and cases were lost based upon acceptance of contract.
A defend case based upon the charge constituting a unlawful penalty has never been lost and we have certainly never seen an example that has come from a trusted source.
Now PPC are very clever so they DELIBERATELY leave loop holes in signs to coax you in to arguing, over some clause been invalid, hence you can not argue over a contract and then state you have not entered in to.
Trouble is a lot of people just can not resist trying to be proved right and end up trapping themselves in the process.
The Correct defence for any PPC is that you did not enter any contract with the said company and any charge levied is an unlawful penalty and not a pre requisition of actual losses .
Case law exists on several fronts to enforce this defence and that can not be overturned at County Court level.

ashleypride

vaio wrote: »

My thoughts….

I think the ignore advice normally is the way to go because they are trying to recover the money based on the driver entering into a contract with them which has the charges attached.

But, the only person they can contact is the registered keeper (via DVLC) and it might well be that the RK wasn’t driving at the time and so couldn’t have entered into the contract. For them to succeed with a claim they need to identify the driver and prove the driver entered into the contract. By ignoring them they can’t do either of these so any claim will fail.

However, in this case the OP has written the appeal letter and whilst we haven’t seen the exact wording you can be pretty sure it both identifies the driver and acknowledges that they overstayed the parking time they had paid for so I think parking company would win a court case as far as identity & existence of contract is concerned and you are then into arguing that the (I presume clearly stated) overstaying charge is somehow unlawful or unenforceable.

Small claims is a bit of a lottery and you need to balance the possible upside vs downside, upside is you don’t have to pay the £90 and you get your expenses, downside is you do have to pay the £90 and you get to pay their expenses and the court fees.

Having said all that I certainly wouldn’t pay until I got a formal letter before action and it might also be worth arguing that the £50 shouldn’t have increased to £90 whilst an appeal was in progress.

While appealing can only serve to weaken your position (or more accurately replying to their phish for information), the OP is being charged £90 / £50, this is clearly not a contractual agreement based on a daily parking rate. This is a penalty charge for overstaying/not having a ticket.

There are clearly no damages here. Even Perky isn't stupid enough to try a free parking case in Small Claims.

sayno

I recieved a 'fine' from ukpc. I sent an appeal and my appeal was rejected. Have I put myself in a bad situation as I have corresponded to them.

Wig

vax2002 wrote: »

Sorry disagree, the defence does not change, this is an unlawful penalty and not an actual account of losses, that is £0.

As we don't know what the signs said, we can't say if it is unlawful.

If it was a charge for users of the car park over 2 hours it could be found by a court (lower court) to be legitimate.....other lower courts have done as much in the past.

I'm not aware of any case law on the subject are you?

There could be a defence of exceptional circumstance causing the 5 minute delay, but I wouldn't think that it would be valid, it would only be valid as a defence to say "I didn't see the signs because I was ill, or my daughter was ill"

Wig

wriggly wrote: »

Even if the PPC has definite proof of the identity of the driver, they will still struggle in court, because they have to prove that the amount requested represents actual costs incurred by the land-owner, not a penalty.

I don't see that anyone can only request "costs" from their customers...

You buy a TV in Currys and you expect to pay only costs?
You employ a builder to build you a conservatory and you expect to only pay his costs?
You drive into a car park and you intend to ignore the displayed tarrif and only pay them their costs?

Sorry, but I think youre wrong. There could be a question mark over the added on £40, but that could be put down to admin costs.