Public sector, where where you when we needed help??

Intoodeep

Surely is it too obvious for the Public Sector to see why people in the Private Sector get so fed up with the whining and whingeing.

Public Sector funded by the Private Sector earnings of ordinary Joe

Private Sector CREATED by the blood sweat and tears of ordinary Joe

Without the Private Sector there is NO Public sector

Or is that really too simple ???????????????

atush

Or is that really too simple ???????????????

Apparently for Marxist ideologs, yes- it is far too simple for them to understand.

bigfreddiel

casey_junior wrote: »

Should we have counter demonstrations to drive them back to their work?

that would be an excellent idea - i'mall for it

fj

CLAPTON

interesting really

lets take two teachers with similar education, age etc etc

one works in a state school so is a parasite who adds nothing to the country and just takes takes takes and just a burden on society

the other works in a private school, so is an absolute paragon of virtue, doing a REAL job as it's private rather than public and adding great wealth to the nation

or we could take two nurses, one working in the state sector and one in the private

still we must be grateful that we no longer have parasitic ugly ducklings working in gas, electricity or water industies as that have all become swans in the private sector

jem16

Intoodeep wrote: »

Without the Private Sector there is NO Public sector

Without the Public Sector, the Private Sector would be an awful lot poorer.

No free Health care - you would pay an awful lot more. Just look at the USA. Do you want to be thinking about your insurance policy when you are gravely ill?

No free Education - private education costs a lot more then your Coucil Tax.

What happens when your house is on fire - do you phone up for a quote to get it put out?

Where does most of the Public service outsourcing go? The private sector - so forget all those lucrative contracts.

Or is that really too simple ???????????????

It seems to be.

Truth is that each part plays a vital part in society. One cannot function without the other. Both are needed.

I'm a Public Sector worker. I don't agree with the strikes because I don't feel that strikes get anyone anywhere. A lot of my colleagues feel the same.

However I am also fed up with this anger towards us on here!

MacMickster

It is difficult to generalise about the public sector because it contains such a wide variety of jobs, rates of pay, terms and conditions and even pension schemes. There are many minimum wage jobs, many vital jobs with no private sector equivalents, many overpaid non-jobs and also many jobs where people do choose public service, performing jobs for which they could obtain greater reward in the private sector.

Each type of public servant presents their own problems when it comes to reform of pensions.

Those in minimum wage jobs are likely to be unable to afford increased pension contributions so will opt out of their schemes, relying on benefits to supplement the state pension instead.

Current members of the police, fire service etc are likely to remain in their posts, as there is no directly equivalent private sector job for them to move into, but with worse pension schemes these vital vocations will appear less appealing to new recruits, so will attract poorer quality applicants in the future.

Those performing non-jobs will kick up the least fuss, and go on doing their non-jobs. This is where savings should be made.

Those doing jobs for less reward than they could get in the private sector with their skills and qualifications (maths and science teachers, dentists, accountants etc) are more likely to make the decision to leave the public sector as a result of the proposed changes and future public sector recruitment in these areas will become more difficult.

I don't believe that there is one single solution to public sector pension reform. Unfortunately this government does.

Old_Slaphead

MacMickster wrote: »

There are many minimum wage jobs, many vital jobs with no private sector equivalents, many overpaid non-jobs and also many jobs where people do choose public service, performing jobs for which they could obtain greater reward in the private sector.

Those in minimum wage jobs are likely to be unable to afford increased pension contributions so will opt out of their schemes, relying on benefits to supplement the state pension instead.

Those doing jobs for less reward than they could get in the private sector with their skills and qualifications (maths and science teachers, dentists, accountants etc) are more likely to make the decision to leave the public sector as a result of the proposed changes and future public sector recruitment in these areas will become more difficult.

Let's be clear on a few things.

(1)There are NO minimum wage jobs in the public sector (if by that you mean on National Minimum Wage). There are many hundreds of thousands such jobs in the private sector.

(2)No public sector worker on a lowish wage will be asked to pay increased pension contributions.

(3)All these tens of thousands of teachers, dentists & accountants leaving the public sector - where are they going to find work in the private sector ????? There certainly arn't loads of such vacancies out here!

MacMickster

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

Let's be clear on a few things.

(1)There are NO minimum wage jobs in the public sector (if by that you mean on National Minimum Wage). There are many hundreds of thousands such jobs in the private sector.

I'll tell that to all the lollipop men, school dinner ladies, council admin assistants etc, who will be delighted to hear about their pay rise.

(2)No public sector worker on a lowish wage will be asked to pay increased pension contributions.

That will be welcomed by civil servants such as my neighbour's wife, who works part-time earning under £13,000 per year. She has been told that as she would be earning double that amount if she were full-time, it will be the full-time rate of pay used to decide the increase in her pension contributions.

(3)All these tens of thousands of teachers, dentists & accountants leaving the public sector - where are they going to find work in the private sector ????? There certainly arn't loads of such vacancies out here!

I believe that industry is claiming that we have a shortage of maths and science graduates to fill vacancies. They will probably welcome maths and science teachers from our schools.

Dentists? If people think that they have difficulty finding an NHS dentist now, wait until the pension increases come in then try to find one.

Accountants (and tax inspectors etc)? That nice Mr Osborne says that we will have a plethora of new start-up businesses appearing in the next few years. I suspect that they will all need accountants.

Old_Slaphead

MacMickster wrote: »

I'll tell that to all the lollipop men, school dinner ladies, council admin assistants etc, who will be delighted to hear about their pay rise.
That will be welcomed by civil servants such as my neighbour's wife, who works part-time earning under £13,000 per year. She has been told that as she would be earning double that amount if she were full-time, it will be the full-time rate of pay used to decide the increase in her pension contributions.
I believe that industry is claiming that we have a shortage of maths and science graduates to fill vacancies. They will probably welcome maths and science teachers from our schools.
Dentists? If people think that they have difficulty finding an NHS dentist now, wait until the pension increases come in then try to find one.

Accountants (and tax inspectors etc)? That nice Mr Osborne says that we will have a plethora of new start-up businesses appearing in the next few years. I suspect that they will all need accountants.

You were not talking about pay rises - you were talking about public sector workers on minimum wage - I repeat there aren't any.

You said minimum wage jobs are likely to be unable to afford pension increase - no mention of part time workers ie your neighbours wife on FTE of above average wage ie £26000pa. They are not on minimum wage!

I repeat - where will industry find work for hundreds of thousands of teachers ? If there were jobs available then pay rates would fall dramatically below what teachers are currently earning (ie well over £40,000 on average if you include the employers pension contribution). Whatever makes you think these people could earn more in the private sector ?? Dentists - I am unable to find a NHS one therefore have to take especially good care of my teeth to ensure that I don't need any repairs.....probably saves money in the long run though. Accountants - small businesses don't need them if they learn a bit of basic bookkeeping.

maginot

Intoodeep wrote: »

Surely is it too obvious for the Public Sector to see why people in the Private Sector get so fed up with the whining and whingeing.

Public Sector funded by the Private Sector earnings of ordinary Joe

Private Sector CREATED by the blood sweat and tears of ordinary Joe

Without the Private Sector there is NO Public sector

Or is that really too simple ???????????????

Almost, just the other way round.

It is the private sector who keep whinging! If the public sector is so rosy, go get a job working 12 hour shifts in a hospital. Go spend 4 years at university and get daily abuse within an inner city state school?

Private sector is created by the public sector, wealth and development is created by public spending. Education is the backbone of any country.

The private sector continually complain about hospitals, schools, crime etc, and then complain further when they are asked to pay for it.

We currently have a pension problem in this country and we need desperately to improve the private sector pension. This is not going to be resolved by reducing the public sector pension. It is short termist to just reduce public pensions.