Public sector, where where you when we needed help??

zagfles

real1314 wrote: »

There's no point linking to websites that you clearly cannot comprehend. You have linked to something that concurs with my point and does not concur with yours. The reduction from 1.9 down to 1.4% of GDP is regardless of any changes.

Perhaps you need to increase your knowledge before commenting? :cool:

Perhaps you need to learn to read. The update at the end says...

The figures I quoted earlier - and which Evan Davis used to skewer Francis Maude this morning - showed that the cost of those pensions is due to decline over the next few decades. That, say the bean counters at the Exchequer, is because they are based on assumption of further reform - precisely what is being negotiated now - and a change - which some are resisting - to the inflation uprating of pensions (from RPI to CPI). They point to a quote from Lord Hutton on BBC1's Politics Show that "we shouldn't rely on that 50-year bet that overall these pensions are sustainable in their current form"."

player

A governments job should not be the re distribution of wealth

Moby

player wrote: »

A governments job should not be the re distribution of wealth

Oh no..... Laissez faire.....Thatcherism is back. Do we really have to learn these lessons all over again. What about fairness, what about life opportunities for young people being brought up on the housing estates of Tottenham...would you have us return to Dickensian times. Look at the latest unemployment figures.....look at how much it costs to go to university now......look at the latest waiting lists in the NHS.

The Governments job is to protect the fabric of society and negotiate between different interest groups......protect the weak and reign in the strong.

This Government is not doing that. They have not been negotiating with the unions in good faith......they have offered nothing of substance in pension negotiations. They have used the press to inflame the argument and set public and private sector workers against each other.

cyclonebri1

Oliver_Zarmy wrote: »

cyclonebri1

Can you please let readers of your post know the answers to the following questions-

1) What has caused wages in the private sector to be as poor as they now are?

2) What has caused pensions in the private sector to be as poor as they now are?

Yes of course I can, and it's the same answer to both questions:

The private sector is more "Savvy" than the public sector. It has to be, it's not supported by taxpayers money so simply has to be profitable and that means acting early to stay above water, not when the crap has hit the fan as is now the case in the public field.

This recession/financial crisis become obvious in the private sector years ago when the "global market" started to emerge, whilst the government still had their heads in the sand and continued to belch out jobs for the boys and good pensions for all.

Never has the phrase wake up and smell the coffee been less well understood.

Moby

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

Yes of course I can, and it's the same answer to both questions:

The private sector is more "Savvy" than the public sector. It has to be, it's not supported by taxpayers money so simply has to be profitable and that means acting early to stay above water, not when the crap has hit the fan as is now the case in the public field.

This recession/financial crisis become obvious in the private sector years ago when the "global market" started to emerge, whilst the government still had their heads in the sand and continued to belch out jobs for the boys and good pensions for all.

Never has the phrase wake up and smell the coffee been less well understood.

I think that phrase actually applies to your comments actually. Look at the latest unemployment figures. 100,000 jobs have been lost in the last 12 months. 3/4 of them in the North....now there's a suprise! Where does the private sector get most of its contracts from.....yes that's right.....the public sector! We are well on our way to long term depression because this Govmt is strangling growth with their cutbacks.....to say nothing of the social consequences and misery being caused in peoples lives.....but of course some of us are insulated because we have already accumulated our pension pots and can sit in judgement from the sidelines!

CiderBoy

Is there a requirement for these anti public sector rants to have a spelling mistake in the title/

cyclonebri1

Moby wrote: »

The Governments job is to protect the fabric of society

This Government is not doing that. They have used the press to inflame the argument and set public and private sector workers against each other.

Yes. and when they've finally realised that staffing and pension levels are too high for the majority of society to support, you don't like it.

It's not the government that has set up the private public inflamation, it's the public sectors refusal to recognise an issue that affects us all.

Britain is no longer the place it once was, we all know that, but many still refuse to accept that everything has to be paid for one way or another.

Moby

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

Yes. and when they've finally realised that staffing and pension levels are too high for the majority of society to support, you don't like it.

It's not the government that has set up the private public inflamation, it's the public sectors refusal to recognise an issue that affects us all.

Britain is no longer the place it once was, we all know that, but many still refuse to accept that everything has to be paid for one way or another.

I do find it rather incredulous that you have to hand all the figures to have the arrogance to start this thread and attack a whole section of society! There is no agreement....I repeat there is no agreement as to the the cause of the deficit, the level of it and most of all the solution to it. Some of us think this Government's strategy is totally wrong.....they are going much too far, too fast and destroying any chance of growth. President Obama in America is on a campaign saying things which are totally different to our lot.

Now of course you and I and everyone else has their own views on these issues....but let's be clear here these are political views based on our own view of the world and our value system.

Its frankly risible that someone can assume that they know the cause and the solution to this pension crisis and on top of that point the finger of blame at a huge swathe of their fellow workers. I suppose its the type of thing you do anonymously though on the internet after you've had your daily mail fix;)

bendix

I dont think anyone is blaming a whole sector of society, Moby. What people are angry about is the governments and unions effectively letting this state of affairs continue, and public sector workers seeming to think they have special rights and privileges to a pension that most of the rest of us can only dream about.

And then when they strike about it, they are incredulous they don't get support from society as a whole.

You can forget class drifts in the UK. The real divide at the moment - at least in the employed space - is between the public and the private sector. And it's going to get nasty.

I remember the 70s when everyone supported the nurses (remember the Angels) striking, or the train drivers. Would that happen now? Not a chance. You just have to look at the contempt people felt for the London Underground Strikes of the last 2 years to see a seachange of opinion against the selfishness and sense of entitlement of (at least) the unionised part of the public sector workforce.

MacMickster

Surely the point of a union is that members pay their fees, and in turn the union tries to obtain the best deal possible for their MEMBERS (not non-members, society as a whole, other sectors etc).

I doubt that the public sector unions or workers are after sympathy or public support - just the best deal that they can collectively get.

I don't work in the public sector, and strongly believe that reforms are required to public sector pensions, but I am not naive enough to believe that huge swathes of workers in the public sector are going to meekly accept worse terms and conditions without putting up a hell of a fight.