Public sector, where where you when we needed help??

cyclonebri1

I'd like to come back with this message that sums up my feelings:

I can't speak for others, but, to the public sector.

I've paid for your excellant pensions so far, but not anymore. Why??


Because I can't afford to

BlondBoy

Bin_Boy wrote: »

I do like a good old ill informed bum fight. This whole thread is a classic example of:

1. People who have never worked in the public sector commenting on their work, benefits, pay etc. on the basis of anecdotal evidence and assumptions; and
2. The opposite.

The fact is that people in both sectors generally work very hard and were attracted to their jobs by different criteria ranging from pay, benefits, social environment, ethics and sense of satisfaction from their jobs. I know many people in both sectors and can tell you that there the same mix of people working their !!!!!! off and those who coast in both.

At the end of the day there are some very talented, hard working and committed people in the public sector who may have been attracted to their jobs by the benefits including pensions.

The bottom line is if the government really wants to create efficiencies in the public sector they need to retain (and attract) the talented hard working people and there is a very real possibility that these people may move to the private sector (or not consider the public sector) if pensions are lowered and there isn't some form of incentive to stay.

With the exception of possibly a desire to make some form of positive contribution to the environment or community there is really very little to keep talented people in the public sector at the moment and losing the talented and committed people will ultimately make things worse and more expensive for everyone.

Do I think strikes are the answer? Not really they simply enhance the view many people already have of the public sector. If the unions really want to make any difference what they should really be doing is trying to actually get the message out there about how hard people in the public sector work, how much abuse many of them get on a daily basis and how they generally really are trying to contribute and help.

Will they do this? No, because the majority of the people leading in the unions are stuck in the past and have no idea how to communicate effectively in the modern world.

RANT OVER...

Elegantly put. As as someone who's worked in both the private and public sector, it saddens me to see the public sector being so roundly bashed.

There's a lot of talented, committed people in the public sector doing work that you'd miss if they went. And many of them work for not a lot a money. The quid pro quo was they'd get a better pension provision.

Over the past decade, many salaries rose to 'compete' with the private sector, which is where the imbalance comes. But not at the honest-to-goodness, hard working level, like staff in HMRC enquiry offices or people in something like CAFCASS who have to make hard decisions about children's futures when their parents split and can't agree. Those people aren't highly paid at all.

All this public sector bashing is going to do is force the talent out, leave the dross in (and much of the dross is overpaid middle management in my experience, not the 'frontline'). Result - poorer public services. Overall cost may be, oh, I dunno, 15 per cent less. But it'll feel like you get an awful lot less for your taxes. Danger of a big false economy if there's the predictable talent drain.

atush

All this public sector bashing is going to do is force the talent out, leave the dross in (and much of the dross is overpaid middle management in my experience, not the 'frontline'). Result - poorer public services. Overall cost may be, oh, I dunno, 15 per cent less. But it'll feel like you get an awful lot less for your taxes. Danger of a big false economy if there's the predictable talent drain.

WE respect the PS workers. We aren't bashing you. We might be bashing your unions, your strikes, and your whinging about pensions that ARE STILL GOOD PENSIONS.

bendix

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

I'd like to come back with this message that sums up my feelings:

I can't speak for others, but, to the public sector.

I've paid for your excellant pensions so far, but not anymore. Why??


Because I can't afford to

This.

What frustrates me about the public sector protectionist approach to their pensions is that they see it as a god-given right that they should have this huge perk, and don't give a stuff about those in the private sector.

Most people in the private sector can't afford to pay for their own pension. Do you seriously expect them to support your strike to force them to continue to pay for someone elses?

Cloud cuckoo land.

Said it before and I'll say it again - it's the new social divide in the UK, and it's going to get messy.

Moby

BlondBoy wrote: »

Elegantly put. As as someone who's worked in both the private and public sector, it saddens me to see the public sector being so roundly bashed.

There's a lot of talented, committed people in the public sector doing work that you'd miss if they went. And many of them work for not a lot a money. The quid pro quo was they'd get a better pension provision.

Over the past decade, many salaries rose to 'compete' with the private sector, which is where the imbalance comes. But not at the honest-to-goodness, hard working level, like staff in HMRC enquiry offices or people in something like CAFCASS who have to make hard decisions about children's futures when their parents split and can't agree. Those people aren't highly paid at all.

All this public sector bashing is going to do is force the talent out, leave the dross in (and much of the dross is overpaid middle management in my experience, not the 'frontline'). Result - poorer public services. Overall cost may be, oh, I dunno, 15 per cent less. But it'll feel like you get an awful lot less for your taxes. Danger of a big false economy if there's the predictable talent drain.

Nicely put. Totally sums up my views as well....people sometimes don't think about consequences...they just want to have an unthinking pop after their morning Daily Mail fix! I'm in the Probation Service...my partners in CAFCASS....we're under huge pressure at present....riots .....overcrowded prisons.. etc We're not managers...we're frontline workers who went into a vocation....just like police officers, fire brigade, NHS etc. As if the pressures of the poorly job itself were not enough...we now have to cope with this joke of a Govmt who are quite calculating in their policy of divide and rule. Sadly many can't rise above that.

cyclonebri1

atush wrote: »

WE respect the PS workers. We aren't bashing you. We might be bashing your unions, your strikes, and your whinging about pensions that ARE STILL GOOD PENSIONS.

Sorry atush, but the public sector workers here can't see that, the other thing they can't see is that for every well paid pris employee that exists, there are 5 minimum wage employees with NO pension provisions,

Hope for the pendant my spelling and grammar is correct:o

atush

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

Sorry atush, but the public sector workers here can't see that, the other thing they can't see is that for every well paid pris employee that exists, there are 5 minimum wage employees with NO pension provisions,

Hope for the pendant my spelling and grammar is correct:o

I agree that they just can't see past their own misinformation and socialist prejudice.

Are they going to be as well off as before? No. Are we? No. Should they stay in their new pensions (or join them)? Yes. Will we pay? Yes. Will we respect their work and service, mostly (there are a few bad apples out there but in the main, yes).

Are we behind them in their strike action? NO. Are we going to let the govt back down? No Way Jose.

CLAPTON

Of course, what is needed is a rational discussion about pension provision in both the private and public sectors and why there is such a big divide; question like how GDP ought to be divided up between workers and pensioners, both now and in the future and between different sections of society

however, divide and rule has been a proven winner over the centuries

Koicarp

Cyclonebri1, as the OP, do you think there is any link to be made between the current changes in public service pensions and future privatisation of services? Hutton suggests that his changes will enable more employee movement between public service and private companies. Personally I think that it will encourage more private companies to come forward and bid for services as and when contracts come up. As a nurse I don't want to work for a private company whose aim is to make profit from delivering care to patients. I'm undergoing TUPE to another NHS organisation at the moment, but the contract is only for three years and we may well go to a private organisation then, if we do I'll get my tools out of the shed and go back to laying bricks for a living. I have no problem with trying to make a profit from construction.

cyclonebri1

bendix wrote: »

This.

What frustrates me about the public sector protectionist approach to their pensions is that they see it as a god-given right that they should have this huge perk, and don't give a stuff about those in the private sector.

Most people in the private sector can't afford to pay for their own pension. Do you seriously expect them to support your strike to force them to continue to pay for someone elses?

Cloud cuckoo land.

Said it before and I'll say it again - it's the new social divide in the UK, and it's going to get messy.

Wow, the 1st time I've thanked, or rather agreed, with Bendix.

There is still hope:T