Liability Order

kevin137

So i have posted on another link without realising i could start a new thread.

I have been fighting the CSA for years, not over the payment of child support but the amount and how many times they have got the assessment wrong. I even managed to get an injunction against them for an expired order but that only lasted for 18 months.

In that hearing the CSA admitted they have got the assessment wrong, they have changed it numerous times, and told the judge they had NO IDEA how much i actually owed.

Then they started the liability proceedings. At the time, i was resident in Norway but worked in the UK for a UK company, in February this changed, the court was notified of my address many times as where the CSA, who by the way insisted on writing to me in the UK for 4 years before they finally started writing to my home address in Norway.

So in february i moved permanently, i do not work, and have NO income whatsoever. I broke my back in October 2009 and have been off sick most of the time up until i left my company in Feb 2011.

THE LIABILITY ORDER

The 1st date back in April, i was notified by the CSA in writing to my home address in Norway, so i wrote a letter to the court asking for an adjournment as i was unable to get there in time for the hearing. They took this onboard and adjourned. In this same letter, i notified them of my CORRECT address in Norway again, and asked they write to me here in the future.

I was again notified by the CSA of the next hearing some 48hours before the hearing was to take place. NOTHING from the court despite having my address...!!!

I again wrote to the court, this time emailing the letter to my mother in the UK who kindly sent the letter recorded delivery the following day 24 hours before the hearing...!!!

The only difference this time was that they heard it in my absence...!!!

I have since NOT had any notification of the liability order from the court, but have however received a copy of it from the CSA..!

So i raised a complaint with the court who would you believe responded to me at my correct address...!

The letter says as follows.

Your letter of the 22nd August has been passed to me as the Clerk in Court on the above date.

I note the contents of your letter and accept what it is that you say about notification of the hearing date from this court.

On the 22nd of July the Magistrates were made aware of the contents of your letters dated the 13th April, 31st May and the 20th July. They deemed that you knew about the above hearing and having heard from the CSA using their judicial discretion proceeded to issue the liability order in your absence.

Given that you were aware of the hearing date, made no representations on the issue of the liability order and chose not to attend the hearing i am unable to assist you any further in this matter. The remedy you seek is not available for the reasons outlined above.
I mean how ridiculous, how can they expect someone who they know lives in a foreign country to attend without notification.

I emailed the sender of that letter a very nice reply.

Thank you for your response dated the 31st August

While i appreciate the Judicial Discretion that your magistrates have in matters before there court, i find it absurd, that having previously notified yourselves of my current address, and in fact that of the CSA, that you managed to NOT notify me of a hearing date and in fact i only found out some 48 hours prior from the CSA.

If this is what Judicial Discretion is for then let me tell you what it amounts to !!!!!!!!...!!!

How am i supposed to fairly defend an action against me when you do not notify me of a hearing.

I will say now that a liability order while may be in place, it infact has no meaning to me, as i was not represented at that hearing in keeping with the LAW of the land, for me to be held accountable i need to be notified, i will now be taking legal action against the courts, and the magistrates for breaching my human rights so if you could be decent enough to disclose the names and addresses of the magistrates who dealt with this case i would appreciate it. I would also like copies of there commission of oaths for proof that they did n fact have the right to hear the case that was brought in my absence.

I trust that you can understand that i am extremely frustrated with this action as i contacted you about the oversight by your office and still find that the law in england is completely farcical and appears to be run more on the basis on corruption by government than for the common people. You are in fact a government agency, albeit registered as a private company, does that mean that i have the right to sue yourselves for any loss suffered by myself as an individual by your contempt towards my case?

You will be hearing further from me, but i trust the information i require will be sent within 14 days.

Regards
I now await the outcome of my outburst and then start down the appeal process and possibly judicial review, which i am probably out of time for, but having never received the order itself would be hard to argue against.

Can anyone tell me what the law requires for notification of a hearing for a non uk resident... as this may be a very good avenue to chase them on as they have admitted that they had received these letters...!

The fight begins.... It is NOT about not paying, it is about them being fair and correct with there assessments, they currently say that i owe £4500 from over a period of 7 years upto and including march this year. My calculations using there own formula work out to them owing me abut £1800 in overpayment, but they insist they have it right, i even supplied copies of recorded conversations notifying them of changes of circumstances which they deny ever took place... I mean how can they argue that...!

kevin137

Anyone know... Please....

Blob

I think that you should try the Legal Ombudsman that covers the courts, I seem to have read about this some where, not sure though!

You can go to the Court of Appeal as well, and try the Lord Chancellor's Office as they should be able to point you in the right direction!

CSA_Help

kevin137 wrote: »

Anyone know... Please....

If you asked them to do a change of circumstances and "YOU RECORDED IT"

Get a hold of your data protection files where everything piece of information (including telephone calls ) is recorded on their computer systems. Theres a sticky at the top of this forum how to apply for you DP files. They cost you £10

Hope this helps

kevin137

I never recorded anything, they provided the recordings when i applied for the data... This was done over a year ago, and i still have all the recordings. Supplied back to them for there consideration in correcting the claim. That is what they denied, even though they gave them to me, they have denied these conversations took place...!

What i find obscene is the courts stance on notification, they clearly know where i live, and they adjourned once after they failed to notify me, and then they do it again and proceed...

It p***es me off the whole attitude of the CSA and the British legal system, thankfully they can do nothing to me in Norway, however, i am now worried they will withdraw my passport or driving license or something similar which would leave me really stuck over here...!

manglesey25

kevin137 wrote: »

It p***es me off the whole attitude of the CSA and the British legal system, thankfully they can do nothing to me in Norway, however, i am now worried they will withdraw my passport or driving license or something similar which would leave me really stuck over here...!

Wont happen, that requires your presence at the magistrates court.

I wouldnt take too much notice of the liability order, its no use if you have moved to Norway permanently.

Worst case scenario is you return to the UK. You can ask the Independent Case Examiner look at your case.

Meanwhile do as other child support expats do, pay your taxes elsewhere until the CSA learns to comply with its regulations.

manglesey25

kevin137 wrote: »

Can anyone tell me what the law requires for notification of a hearing for a non uk resident... as this may be a very good avenue to chase them on as they have admitted that they had received these letters...!

s33 of the Child Support Act 1991.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1991/48/section/33/enacted

Not very useful I'm afraid. Nothing in the legislation requires the CSA to notify you of the application of the Liability Order.

However, enforcing the Liability Order is a different ball game. See Introduction to International Human Rights Law By Curtis F. J. Doebbler ISBN 9780974357027 http://books.google.com/books?id=mQ61oCPJ1GEC&pg=PA108&dq=right+to+fair+trial#v=onepage&q=right%20to%20fair%20trial&f=false

It says:

Both the European Court of Human Rights and the Inter-American Court of Human Rights have clarified that the right to a fair trial applies not only to judicial proceedings, but also administrative proceedings. If a individual's right under the law is at stake, the dispute must be determined through a fair process

And for that to happen, it requires you to be in the UK and at the tribunal.

PlayingHardball

kevin137 wrote: »

thankfully they can do nothing to me in Norway, however, i am now worried they will withdraw my passport or driving license or something similar which would leave me really stuck over here...!

'THEY' most certainly can do something to you in Norway! Your comment is not only distasteful, it is ignorant of the ways of our world in 2011, with regards to supporting children. Have you heard of REMO? I suggest you do some research. I expect there is an excisting UK court order for child support, don't for one second think it cannot be enforced in Norway, it most certainly CAN.

Yes, the CSA have the power to take your passport and driving licence.

PlayingHardball

manglesey25 wrote: »

s33 of the Child Support Act 1991.



And for that to happen, it requires you to be in the UK and at the tribunal.

Are you a solicitor? Doubt it.

My tribunal happened in the UK, ex knew about the tribunal, chose not to attend. He asked for it to be adjourned, gave stupid excuse.

I won.

manglesey25

PlayingHardball wrote: »

Have you heard of REMO? I suggest you do some research. I expect there is an excisting UK court order for child support, don't for one second think it cannot be enforced in Norway, it most certainly CAN.

Yes, the CSA have the power to take your passport and driving licence.

These internet lawyers really know their stuff.

The CSA and the Tribunal service never send documents an address outside the UK. If you are not in the UK then enforcement comes to nothing.

As for REMO, only a PWC can apply, and the application often falls at the first hurdle if the PWC is a single parent by choice.

manglesey25

PlayingHardball wrote: »

Yes, the CSA have the power to take your passport and driving licence.

Correct, but unfortunately (for you) that requires the NRP to be summonsed before a magistrate and the order be made in his presence.

If the NRP is not in the UK, theres not alot the CSA can do.