Barclaycard chargeback problems - please help!

willb2011

I’m hoping that someone might be able to help in a dispute I am having with Barclaycard.
I used my Barclaycard to pay £1855.39 for the rental of a vacation property in LA for my wife and I, our two young children and my parents for 9 nights in March 2011.
On arrival at the property, we immediately found it to be unsuitable being dirty, dangerous and poorly furnished and equipped. It had a filthy dirty kitchen, sharp nails protruding from the floor, grubby and stained sofas and chairs, cigarette butts all over the place and dangerous wiring (eg. bare electrical wires in the children’s bedroom)
I contacted the agent immediately and, the following morning, met with the owner who agreed a full refund. He asked me to sign a “No further claims” document on which he had written “TO BE REFUNDED $2900” in yellow marker pen. We then left the property and managed to rent another property in the same area for the remainder of our holiday.
Despite the owner having promised to refund the full amount paid, we received no such refund and emails and telephone calls to him went unanswered.
Having attempted to reclaim the money from Paypal via their “dispute resolution service” and failed, I then proceeded to ask Barclaycard to chargeback the amount.
Despite providing extensive evidence that the property was not fit for use including a detailed list of deficiencies, extensive photographs (copies available on request) and a statement from my Father regarding the condition of the property, Barclaycard charged this transaction back on the basis of “A missing refund” rather than the correct reason of “Defective/Not as Described“.
In the chargeback defence, the owner of the property did not acknowledge our claims about the habitability of the property but simply quoted his terms and conditions and attached the “No further claims” document on which the “TO BE REFUNDED $2900” writing had now been erased.
On the basis of this, Barclaycard refused to enter a second or arbitration chargeback. They have also denied liability under section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1975 on the grounds that the payment was made through Paypal.
Barclaycard have now issued a “Final Response” letter and invited me to take this up with the Financial Ombudsman service.
To top it off, Barclaycard have now collected the disputed amount by Direct Debit leaving me substantially overdrawn even though I cancelled my Direct Debit instruction by phone with them 7 days before.
Having been a loyal customer with Barclaycard for over 20 years, I am extremely disappointed with this treatment and I would be very grateful for any help or advice in how to recover this amount - other than going to the FOS as I understand there is a 9-12 month backlog of cases.
I'd also like to spread this complaint around the web as I think people ought to know how flimsy the "protection" offered by Barclaycard is for this sort of purchase so, if you have any suggestions for other places to post this, I would be very grateful.
Thanks.

meer53

Quality of goods or services is not something that is covered by Visa Chargeback Regulations which will be why Barclays actioned the chargeback as "non receipt of refund" instead. This chargeback will only be successful if you have documentary proof that a refund has been processed by the merchant but not received to your account. This usually needs to be in the form of a receipt showing the merchant has attempted to process this, they will usually try with any documentation you can provide but the merchant has the right to dispute the chargeback which is whats happened in your case.

With regard to the Paypal issue and Section 75, as there is a 3rd party payment processing company involved (Paypal) technically there is no debtor/creditor relationship which is why Barclays have advised you to contact FOS. I think you should do this, but also lodge a complaint with Barclays.

spadge_2356

I worked in disputes/fraud department of MBNA for 3 years and never saw a dispute as bad as this! Did Barclaycard say why the couldn't charge back the item? Was it because of the docket the merchant produced?

I'm interested to know what PayPal said. Why did they refuse your claim?

If you have all the photographs and other evidence you say you've kept it sounds like you have a strong case with the financial ombudsman. I'd probably wait until they rule on this unless the fact your overdrawn is causing severe difficulties that it can't wait.

It's incredible to think that Barclaycard doesn't understand that you wouldn't of signed the "no further claims" contract without getting promised a full refund first! Surely FOS will understand. Good luck with your claim too, if this thread is still about in 9 months time i'll certainly be checking up.

willb2011

Thanks both of you. Actually this is a Mastercard and they do have a quality reason code to chargeback - [FONT=&quot]the MasterCard 2008 Chargeback Guide refers to “Goods…[that] could not be used for the intended purpose” - reason 4853.My issue that is that Barclaycard charged is under the wrong Reason Code then failed to follow it up. Paypal said nothing other than they reject it but I wasn't holding out for any remedy from them. I am now relying on the FOS but Barclaycard are obviously sure of their case. Do either of you have any suggestion of where else I could publish this to cause maximum publicity so as to warn other users?
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izools

We have a problem here.

The Barclaycard was used to buy a service from Paypal and not from the Hotel owner.

As PayPal delivered the service they were paid by Barclaycard for the transaction cannot be charged back and the issue lies firmly with PayPal.

Pay Pal aren't regulated by the CCA 1974 and your only recourse is to exhause the terms PayPal have with you in their T&C.

And in future, avoid paypal for any large purchases.

dazza.mk

izools wrote: »

We have a problem here.

The Barclaycard was used to buy a service from Paypal and not from the Hotel owner.

As PayPal delivered the service they were paid by Barclaycard for the transaction cannot be charged back and the issue lies firmly with PayPal.

Pay Pal aren't regulated by the CCA 1974 and your only recourse is to exhause the terms PayPal have with you in their T&C.

And in future, avoid paypal for any large purchases.

Just to add to that if (and its probably a big if!) you win a Paypal complaint regarding the vacation property and you receive an email from Paypal saying that you are due a Paypal refund but they are unable to make a refund due to the lack of funds in the other Paypal account potentially a Section 75 claim against Barclaycard would be back in play.

Section 75 claim would then be on failure to refund the Paypal funds as agreed, the state of the vactation property itself would be completely irrelevant.

dazza.mk

willb2011 wrote: »

[FONT=&quot]“Goods…[that] could not be used for the intended purpose” - reason 4853.My issue that is that Barclaycard charged is under the wrong Reason Code then failed to follow it up. Paypal said nothing other than they reject it but I wasn't holding out for any remedy from them. I am now relying on the FOS but Barclaycard are obviously sure of their case. Do either of you have any suggestion of where else I could publish this to cause maximum publicity so as to warn other users?
[/FONT]

Difficult one to argue in the circumstances, unless you had hard evidence that the property was dangerous (as opposed to a minor problem that could have been corrected by the agent or could have been covered by a partial refund).

As to the maximum publicity I wouldn't worry about it, the fact that it is best not to use Paypal for large purchases (specifically where Section 75 cover would be preferable) is well known.

spadge_2356

In terms of publicity I think just posting in these forums gives you alot of exposure (you could always try writing into the press if you wanted to cause maximum damage but I wouldn't encourage that of course).

So are you saying PayPal couldn't justify why they were unwilling to protect you? Not even that old chesnut "it's clearly written in your terms and conditions"? I think your owed an explaination at least from PayPal for claim rejection even if you're not successful in your claim.

I was thinking earlier, aren't some of these vacation companies meant to be ABTA/ATOL protected? I've heard that they give some protection but I'm not 100% on how these work or what they cover you against. Perhaps that might offer you another route of recourse?

JimmyTheWig

I agree with the above. I think it's PayPal you need to be chasing.

willb2011

Thanks to everybody to responded.

I never bothered following up Paypal once they had emailed me saying they rejected the complaint because I felt that Barclaycard would be a better bet. How wrong I was!

I will now look at how to do this - if anyone can direct me to any advice on dealing with Paypal once they have rejected a complaint, that would be very helpful. I would rather write to them recorded delivery threatening legal action rather than work through their awkward systems and automated responses.

spadge_2356

willb2011 wrote: »

I would rather write to them recorded delivery threatening legal action rather than work through their awkward systems and automated responses.

This won't help change their minds. The police will say its a civil matter and that means you have to start paying a solicitor to take legal action (you might end up paying more than the claim is worth).

Remember the likes of PayPal make hand over fist and they have the capability of hiring an army of solicitors to discredit your evidence. Best thing for you to do is follow the PayPal/Barclaycard dispute process until it is exhausted and then take it to FOS. The process is long winded however if you play nice then this means if you do have a strong case non of these big companies has an excuse not to pay out because you have made threats ect.