Barclaycard chargeback problems - please help!

JimmyTheWig

I agree with spadge.
If you're successful then PayPal will refund you and take the money back from the agent's account. In many ways it doesn't actually benefit PayPal to refuse you.
Following the rules is your best bet.

willb2011

Yes but what on grounds do I complain to Paypal? They transferred the money and they don't seem to have any other responsibilities. Looking at my account, the reason for their rejection was that their "Buyer protection" policy doesn't cover intangibles. Assuming that this is in their T&Cs, I don't see what remedy I have against them. At least with a credit card provider there are the chargeback and s75 (usually) routes. Can anybody enlighten me?

meer53

willb2011 wrote: »

Yes but what on grounds do I complain to Paypal? They transferred the money and they don't seem to have any other responsibilities. Looking at my account, the reason for their rejection was that their "Buyer protection" policy doesn't cover intangibles. Assuming that this is in their T&Cs, I don't see what remedy I have against them. At least with a credit card provider there are the chargeback and s75 (usually) routes. Can anybody enlighten me?

As i previously mentioned, quality of goods or services is not usually covered. I'm assuming this is what Paypal call "intangibles"

You paid Paypal, they passed the funds on to the letting agent, therefore they did what they were asked to do which is why i think you'll struggle to get any resolution from them. Mastercard and Visa use basically the same regulations for their chargebacks, the accomodation could have been used for the intended purpose, it was your opinion that it couldn't, thats very difficult to prove. For a Section 75 claim you will need to be able to establish that there has been a breach of contract, you will probably need legal help for this.

JimmyTheWig

Will a section 75 claim stand up, though, even if a breach of contract on the part of the agent?
Barclaycard paid PayPal and PayPal did what you told them to do. So I don't think (though I don't know at all) that Barclaycard can be held liable.
If you could do a Section 75 on PayPal (which I don't believe you can) then fair enough as the bit that they were involved in (i.e. paying the agent) was the bit that all went wrong.

I wonder if you will need to / are able to sue the agent directly? I.e. do whatever you'd need to do if you paid by cheque, for example.
I'm also presuming you didn't have holiday insurance?

meer53

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

Will a section 75 claim stand up, though, even if a breach of contract on the part of the agent?
Barclaycard paid PayPal and PayPal did what you told them to do. So I don't think (though I don't know at all) that Barclaycard can be held liable.
If you could do a Section 75 on PayPal (which I don't believe you can) then fair enough as the bit that they were involved in (i.e. paying the agent) was the bit that all went wrong.

I wonder if you will need to / are able to sue the agent directly? I.e. do whatever you'd need to do if you paid by cheque, for example.
I'm also presuming you didn't have holiday insurance?

As there is no debtor/creditor relationship i don't think a Section 75 claim will get off the ground either. Thats why i think the OP will need legal advice to see where to go from here. Don't think Travel Insurance would help here either really do you ?

JimmyTheWig

I don't really know much about holidays, but I would have liked to think that if you've had to pay out for a second place to stay when the first one was no good that your insurance company would foot the bill.
But I would have guessed that they would have needed to be involved from the beginning.

Certainly worth a phone call, though, if you've got it, OP.

mallard76

I might be wrong, but based on my previous experience with paypal / ebay, you could try claiming on the basis that the product / service was not provided at all (you rented a different room after agreeing this with the property agent), so there is nothing to pay for and you want a full refund. Still, the most important thing is your contract with property agent - there may be cancellation fees there etc.

willb2011

Section 75 is generally believed not to apply where payment has been made through a 3rd party such as Paypal. However, Which? disagree. Google "Which? are-your-paypal-purchases-protected" for more info.

Which? state that they have received advice that Paypal transactions with a business are covered under s75. Sadly, they have not responded to my requests for which "leading consumer barrister" has given this opinion and it seems that the question of section 75 and 3rd party providers has not been tested in court YET. The FOS think it does not apply, LACORS won't express an opinion and have asked the OFT to get involved.

We did have holiday insurance so will try that avenue - good thinking.

Thanks for all your thoughts and advice.

duggie1982

willb2011 wrote: »

I’m hoping that someone might be able to help in a dispute I am having with Barclaycard.
I used my Barclaycard to pay £1855.39 for the rental of a vacation property in LA for my wife and I, our two young children and my parents for 9 nights in March 2011.
On arrival at the property, we immediately found it to be unsuitable being dirty, dangerous and poorly furnished and equipped. It had a filthy dirty kitchen, sharp nails protruding from the floor, grubby and stained sofas and chairs, cigarette butts all over the place and dangerous wiring (eg. bare electrical wires in the children’s bedroom)
I contacted the agent immediately and, the following morning, met with the owner who agreed a full refund. He asked me to sign a “No further claims” document on which he had written “TO BE REFUNDED $2900” in yellow marker pen. We then left the property and managed to rent another property in the same area for the remainder of our holiday.
Despite the owner having promised to refund the full amount paid, we received no such refund and emails and telephone calls to him went unanswered.
Having attempted to reclaim the money from Paypal via their “dispute resolution service” and failed, I then proceeded to ask Barclaycard to chargeback the amount.
Despite providing extensive evidence that the property was not fit for use including a detailed list of deficiencies, extensive photographs (copies available on request) and a statement from my Father regarding the condition of the property, Barclaycard charged this transaction back on the basis of “A missing refund” rather than the correct reason of “Defective/Not as Described“.
In the chargeback defence, the owner of the property did not acknowledge our claims about the habitability of the property but simply quoted his terms and conditions and attached the “No further claims” document on which the “TO BE REFUNDED $2900” writing had now been erased.
On the basis of this, Barclaycard refused to enter a second or arbitration chargeback. They have also denied liability under section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1975 on the grounds that the payment was made through Paypal.
Barclaycard have now issued a “Final Response” letter and invited me to take this up with the Financial Ombudsman service.
To top it off, Barclaycard have now collected the disputed amount by Direct Debit leaving me substantially overdrawn even though I cancelled my Direct Debit instruction by phone with them 7 days before.
Having been a loyal customer with Barclaycard for over 20 years, I am extremely disappointed with this treatment and I would be very grateful for any help or advice in how to recover this amount - other than going to the FOS as I understand there is a 9-12 month backlog of cases.
I'd also like to spread this complaint around the web as I think people ought to know how flimsy the "protection" offered by Barclaycard is for this sort of purchase so, if you have any suggestions for other places to post this, I would be very grateful.
Thanks.

Would have been a yellow highlighter - Does not show when you photo copy the orignal document!