Council Tax Rebanding SUCCESS stories

Valken2020

Looking for help regarding a proposal to alter council tax banding in Scotland, in particular, how can I win an appeal against the 6 month time limit on making the proposal valid.

lincroft1710

Markwilson1907 said:

lincroft1710 said:

Markwilson1907 said:

lincroft1710 said:

Markwilson1907 said:

Wondering if anyone can offer advice on my case?
I am band F, there are another 5 identical bungalows on our estate, 4 in band F and one in band E. The other identical property that is in band E was originally band F but successfully reduced to E in mid 90’s presumably because 99% of sales evidence around April 1991 point to band E.
I have asked my local voa to look at my band (after 6 months) but they say band F is correct. The voa have confirmed that the band E property is identical to mine according to their records. My request to voa was a couple of years ago and I pointed out they have a duty to maintain an accurate list. They have not increased the other identical property from band E to F.
Any advice much appreciated as I haven’t come across any similar cases where a voa (or possibly appeal panel) have reduced a band of identical property but refuse to reduce ours, especially when 99% of sales evidence also points to band E.

I am ex VOA and the VOA's stance suggest that either

1. having revisited the evidence they have decided that the band of the Band E bungalow should not have been reduced but for some reason they are disinclined to increase it back to Band F.

or

2. The Band E bungalow was the subject of a Valuation Tribunal decision which was a perverse judgement and/or may have been contrary to a previous VT decision. In such circumstances the VOA may consider the latest VT decision does not set a precedent for reducing other bands. In one case I dealt with, the VT decision  was so worded that it intimated it should not be used as a precedent for other cases.

Finally if you are using Zoopla calculated prices or Nationwide or Halifax house price indices, be aware that these are inaccurate. 

Hi thanks for your input.  Can I ask your opinion on the responsibility of the voa to keep an accurate list?  A voa official did tell me they believe the other property was in the wrong band but that being the case they should increase it to band F to fulfill their duty to keep accurate list.  Do voa have powers to reverse an appeal panel decision? I wouldn’t have thought so.  It is not actually clear the reduced bungalow went to appeal panel so may have been voa who reduced it, surely if that was the case they would be discriminating if they take a different view on an identical property?

The house prices are from the register of Scotland keeper website not nationwide etc. I’ve also just discovered today that the sale price of an identical bungalow that they said took place in January 1991 is listed on Ros.gov.uk as Nov 1990.  Do you think this could be new evidence to make new proposal?
Can I ask what you would do if you were in the scenario we find ourselves in?
thanks again
mark

As you refer to Ros.gov.uk I presume you are in Scotland and their CT banding is dealt with by the Assessor and their tribunal system is also different. So I can't really venture an opinion. As you have lived in the bungalow for more than 6 months you cannot make a valid proposal, despite there being a possibility of new evidence. 

Hi, yes in Scotland so appreciate there is slight differences with English system but I think the obligation to keep an accurate list is the same. What’s your thoughts on the accurate list arguments? Sorry to be a pest but one last thing I meant to ask was if you ever came across cases where identical properties within 70 yards of each other were in different bands with or without challenges?
thanks for everything you’ve mentioned so far I really appreciate it.
Thanks
mark

Some 25 yrs ago the senior personnel at the VOA made the decision that CT bands should not be increased if the notional increase in the 1991 price would only just put the property into the next band. This had no legal standing, was not always followed and may well have now been rescinded. It is a possibility that the Assessors may have been issued with similar instructions, hence the Band E bungalow not being increased.

In an ideal world the List should be accurate, and the VOA certainly (probably also the Assessor) has a duty to maintain an accurate List. There were hundreds of cases that I knew where more or less identical properties had different bands, but there was neither the time nor personnel to investigate those where no complaint was made and there was no encouragement by senior management to do so. That did change later when following a band reduction or increase on a property on an estate, all properties of the same type on that estate were reduced or increased accordingly. However historic cases were not revisited.

If you ask the Assessor why they will not increase the Band E and do not receive a satisfactory answer I can only suggest you contact your MSP and ask them to intervene. However there is no guarantee they will get a result, English MPs were very easy to fob off, but MSPs may be made of sterner stuff.

lincroft1710

Caparn said:

I've just had the council tax band on my house changed from Band B to Band A with effect from 01/04/1993.
I'm not sure how much council tax I will get back. I've been living there since 1995 when council tax was about £500 a year it's now about £1400 a year. My question is do they apply interest on the money they owe from years ago or is it just the amount it was back then (25 years ago) when £500 was worth a lot more than £500 is today?

You will receive back the difference between the Band A payment and the Band B payment for each individual year. So if 2019/20 difference was £200, that is what you will receive for that year, if 2018/2019 was £190, then you receive £190, etc, etc.back to the start of the refund.

CT legislation makes no reference to the payment of interest on refunds of overpaid CT, so no interest will be paid.

lincroft1710

Valken2020 said:

Looking for help regarding a proposal to alter council tax banding in Scotland, in particular, how can I win an appeal against the 6 month time limit on making the proposal valid.

I can only comment on the English system, but the Scottish system is probably very similar.

If you make a proposal for reduction because you think the band is too high and you are outside the 6 month time limit then it will not be valid full stop. There are no extenuating circumstances. 

Markwilson1907

lincroft1710 said:

Markwilson1907 said:

lincroft1710 said:

Markwilson1907 said:

lincroft1710 said:

Markwilson1907 said:

Wondering if anyone can offer advice on my case?
I am band F, there are another 5 identical bungalows on our estate, 4 in band F and one in band E. The other identical property that is in band E was originally band F but successfully reduced to E in mid 90’s presumably because 99% of sales evidence around April 1991 point to band E.
I have asked my local voa to look at my band (after 6 months) but they say band F is correct. The voa have confirmed that the band E property is identical to mine according to their records. My request to voa was a couple of years ago and I pointed out they have a duty to maintain an accurate list. They have not increased the other identical property from band E to F.
Any advice much appreciated as I haven’t come across any similar cases where a voa (or possibly appeal panel) have reduced a band of identical property but refuse to reduce ours, especially when 99% of sales evidence also points to band E.

I am ex VOA and the VOA's stance suggest that either

1. having revisited the evidence they have decided that the band of the Band E bungalow should not have been reduced but for some reason they are disinclined to increase it back to Band F.

or

2. The Band E bungalow was the subject of a Valuation Tribunal decision which was a perverse judgement and/or may have been contrary to a previous VT decision. In such circumstances the VOA may consider the latest VT decision does not set a precedent for reducing other bands. In one case I dealt with, the VT decision  was so worded that it intimated it should not be used as a precedent for other cases.

Finally if you are using Zoopla calculated prices or Nationwide or Halifax house price indices, be aware that these are inaccurate. 

Hi thanks for your input.  Can I ask your opinion on the responsibility of the voa to keep an accurate list?  A voa official did tell me they believe the other property was in the wrong band but that being the case they should increase it to band F to fulfill their duty to keep accurate list.  Do voa have powers to reverse an appeal panel decision? I wouldn’t have thought so.  It is not actually clear the reduced bungalow went to appeal panel so may have been voa who reduced it, surely if that was the case they would be discriminating if they take a different view on an identical property?

The house prices are from the register of Scotland keeper website not nationwide etc. I’ve also just discovered today that the sale price of an identical bungalow that they said took place in January 1991 is listed on Ros.gov.uk as Nov 1990.  Do you think this could be new evidence to make new proposal?
Can I ask what you would do if you were in the scenario we find ourselves in?
thanks again
mark

As you refer to Ros.gov.uk I presume you are in Scotland and their CT banding is dealt with by the Assessor and their tribunal system is also different. So I can't really venture an opinion. As you have lived in the bungalow for more than 6 months you cannot make a valid proposal, despite there being a possibility of new evidence. 

Hi, yes in Scotland so appreciate there is slight differences with English system but I think the obligation to keep an accurate list is the same. What’s your thoughts on the accurate list arguments? Sorry to be a pest but one last thing I meant to ask was if you ever came across cases where identical properties within 70 yards of each other were in different bands with or without challenges?
thanks for everything you’ve mentioned so far I really appreciate it.
Thanks
mark

Some 25 yrs ago the senior personnel at the VOA made the decision that CT bands should not be increased if the notional increase in the 1991 price would only just put the property into the next band. This had no legal standing, was not always followed and may well have now been rescinded. It is a possibility that the Assessors may have been issued with similar instructions, hence the Band E bungalow not being increased.

In an ideal world the List should be accurate, and the VOA certainly (probably also the Assessor) has a duty to maintain an accurate List. There were hundreds of cases that I knew where more or less identical properties had different bands, but there was neither the time nor personnel to investigate those where no complaint was made and there was no encouragement by senior management to do so. That did change later when following a band reduction or increase on a property on an estate, all properties of the same type on that estate were reduced or increased accordingly. However historic cases were not revisited.

If you ask the Assessor why they will not increase the Band E and do not receive a satisfactory answer I can only suggest you contact your MSP and ask them to intervene. However there is no guarantee they will get a result, English MPs were very easy to fob off, but MSPs may be made of sterner stuff.

That is quite interesting as the voa have admitted the identical bungalows are all on the borderline between band E and F, in Scotland that is £80000. The sales prices of identical bungalows around the all important date in 1991 are as follows 
Feb 1990 £78000
Nov1990 £82500
Oct 1991 £79000
March 1992 £79000
Its fair to say they are borderline and voa stance is because the £82500 in Nov 1990 is closest to 1 April 1991 band F applies.  For some reason though voa have advised me the £82500 sale was January 1991 but ros.gov.uk says Nov 1990.  I guess the other identical bungalow that successfully had theirs reduced to band E in the mid nineties argued that all sales prices around that time should be taken into account. 

I’d be interested to hear your views on these sale prices to see what you think?
thanks again.
mark

sarah4241

Hi. Looking for a bit of advice really please. I am in the middle of a terrace of 4 houses built in 2007, I moved in in 2012. All 4 of the properties are band c with the 2 end terraces being 3 bedrooms and the 2 middle ones 2 bedrooms.  I have looked on the rest of the estate and all seem to be about the same band but I can see that other properties in the same postcode area are band b for 2 bedrooms with a garden semi detached.  Would it be worth me applying to the VOA for a reband to band b or just leave it?

Caparn

lincroft1710 said:

Caparn said:

I've just had the council tax band on my house changed from Band B to Band A with effect from 01/04/1993.
I'm not sure how much council tax I will get back. I've been living there since 1995 when council tax was about £500 a year it's now about £1400 a year. My question is do they apply interest on the money they owe from years ago or is it just the amount it was back then (25 years ago) when £500 was worth a lot more than £500 is today?

You will receive back the difference between the Band A payment and the Band B payment for each individual year. So if 2019/20 difference was £200, that is what you will receive for that year, if 2018/2019 was £190, then you receive £190, etc, etc.back to the start of the refund.

CT legislation makes no reference to the payment of interest on refunds of overpaid CT, so no interest will be paid.

Thanks lincroft,
That seems unfair, the payments I have made date back to 1995 so theoretically they have been holding onto some of my money since 1995 when £1 back then is worth £2 in todays money.

lincroft1710

Markwilson1907 said:

lincroft1710 said:

Markwilson1907 said:

lincroft1710 said:

Markwilson1907 said:

lincroft1710 said:

Markwilson1907 said:

Wondering if anyone can offer advice on my case?
I am band F, there are another 5 identical bungalows on our estate, 4 in band F and one in band E. The other identical property that is in band E was originally band F but successfully reduced to E in mid 90’s presumably because 99% of sales evidence around April 1991 point to band E.
I have asked my local voa to look at my band (after 6 months) but they say band F is correct. The voa have confirmed that the band E property is identical to mine according to their records. My request to voa was a couple of years ago and I pointed out they have a duty to maintain an accurate list. They have not increased the other identical property from band E to F.
Any advice much appreciated as I haven’t come across any similar cases where a voa (or possibly appeal panel) have reduced a band of identical property but refuse to reduce ours, especially when 99% of sales evidence also points to band E.

I am ex VOA and the VOA's stance suggest that either

1. having revisited the evidence they have decided that the band of the Band E bungalow should not have been reduced but for some reason they are disinclined to increase it back to Band F.

or

2. The Band E bungalow was the subject of a Valuation Tribunal decision which was a perverse judgement and/or may have been contrary to a previous VT decision. In such circumstances the VOA may consider the latest VT decision does not set a precedent for reducing other bands. In one case I dealt with, the VT decision  was so worded that it intimated it should not be used as a precedent for other cases.

Finally if you are using Zoopla calculated prices or Nationwide or Halifax house price indices, be aware that these are inaccurate. 

Hi thanks for your input.  Can I ask your opinion on the responsibility of the voa to keep an accurate list?  A voa official did tell me they believe the other property was in the wrong band but that being the case they should increase it to band F to fulfill their duty to keep accurate list.  Do voa have powers to reverse an appeal panel decision? I wouldn’t have thought so.  It is not actually clear the reduced bungalow went to appeal panel so may have been voa who reduced it, surely if that was the case they would be discriminating if they take a different view on an identical property?

The house prices are from the register of Scotland keeper website not nationwide etc. I’ve also just discovered today that the sale price of an identical bungalow that they said took place in January 1991 is listed on Ros.gov.uk as Nov 1990.  Do you think this could be new evidence to make new proposal?
Can I ask what you would do if you were in the scenario we find ourselves in?
thanks again
mark

As you refer to Ros.gov.uk I presume you are in Scotland and their CT banding is dealt with by the Assessor and their tribunal system is also different. So I can't really venture an opinion. As you have lived in the bungalow for more than 6 months you cannot make a valid proposal, despite there being a possibility of new evidence. 

Hi, yes in Scotland so appreciate there is slight differences with English system but I think the obligation to keep an accurate list is the same. What’s your thoughts on the accurate list arguments? Sorry to be a pest but one last thing I meant to ask was if you ever came across cases where identical properties within 70 yards of each other were in different bands with or without challenges?
thanks for everything you’ve mentioned so far I really appreciate it.
Thanks
mark

Some 25 yrs ago the senior personnel at the VOA made the decision that CT bands should not be increased if the notional increase in the 1991 price would only just put the property into the next band. This had no legal standing, was not always followed and may well have now been rescinded. It is a possibility that the Assessors may have been issued with similar instructions, hence the Band E bungalow not being increased.

In an ideal world the List should be accurate, and the VOA certainly (probably also the Assessor) has a duty to maintain an accurate List. There were hundreds of cases that I knew where more or less identical properties had different bands, but there was neither the time nor personnel to investigate those where no complaint was made and there was no encouragement by senior management to do so. That did change later when following a band reduction or increase on a property on an estate, all properties of the same type on that estate were reduced or increased accordingly. However historic cases were not revisited.

If you ask the Assessor why they will not increase the Band E and do not receive a satisfactory answer I can only suggest you contact your MSP and ask them to intervene. However there is no guarantee they will get a result, English MPs were very easy to fob off, but MSPs may be made of sterner stuff.

That is quite interesting as the voa have admitted the identical bungalows are all on the borderline between band E and F, in Scotland that is £80000. The sales prices of identical bungalows around the all important date in 1991 are as follows 
Feb 1990 £78000
Nov1990 £82500
Oct 1991 £79000
March 1992 £79000
Its fair to say they are borderline and voa stance is because the £82500 in Nov 1990 is closest to 1 April 1991 band F applies.  For some reason though voa have advised me the £82500 sale was January 1991 but ros.gov.uk says Nov 1990.  I guess the other identical bungalow that successfully had theirs reduced to band E in the mid nineties argued that all sales prices around that time should be taken into account. 

I’d be interested to hear your views on these sale prices to see what you think?
thanks again.
mark

The figures seem to indicate that Scottish house prices fell much less in the early 1990s than in Southern England. Ignoring the Feb 1990 sale, my opinion is that without studying other house prices in the area to see what pattern is formed, it is impossible to state categorically that a bungalow would have sold for in excess of £80K on 1 April 1991.

In the VOA if we had a borderline case with no relevant sale of the subject property, the advice was "give the benefit of the doubt " i.e. apply the lower band. However the Assessor may not work on that principle. Your problem will be (or is) that the Assessor will dig their heels in and say that Band F is well established for those bungalow and they won't change it.

Your only hope is finding out if the bungalows that you have quoted were any better (other than decor or repair) at the date of sale than yours was at 1 April !993 ( yes1993 not 1991) or the date of your purchase if later.

lincroft1710

sarah4241 said:

Hi. Looking for a bit of advice really please. I am in the middle of a terrace of 4 houses built in 2007, I moved in in 2012. All 4 of the properties are band c with the 2 end terraces being 3 bedrooms and the 2 middle ones 2 bedrooms.  I have looked on the rest of the estate and all seem to be about the same band but I can see that other properties in the same postcode area are band b for 2 bedrooms with a garden semi detached.  Would it be worth me applying to the VOA for a reband to band b or just leave it?

It is worth asking the VOA why similar 2 bed houses are Band B, there may be good reason (smaller, less desirable area). The worst that could happen is that the 2 bed semis are increased to Band C.

lincroft1710

Caparn said:

lincroft1710 said:

Caparn said:

I've just had the council tax band on my house changed from Band B to Band A with effect from 01/04/1993.
I'm not sure how much council tax I will get back. I've been living there since 1995 when council tax was about £500 a year it's now about £1400 a year. My question is do they apply interest on the money they owe from years ago or is it just the amount it was back then (25 years ago) when £500 was worth a lot more than £500 is today?

You will receive back the difference between the Band A payment and the Band B payment for each individual year. So if 2019/20 difference was £200, that is what you will receive for that year, if 2018/2019 was £190, then you receive £190, etc, etc.back to the start of the refund.

CT legislation makes no reference to the payment of interest on refunds of overpaid CT, so no interest will be paid.

Thanks lincroft,
That seems unfair, the payments I have made date back to 1995 so theoretically they have been holding onto some of my money since 1995 when £1 back then is worth £2 in todays money.

It may seem unfair to you but that is how refunds work, you are repaid what you overpaid in pure monetary terms. There can be no regard to inflation. Any money a council receives from CT payments will have been spent in either that or the following financial year.