Council Tax Rebanding SUCCESS stories

Geoff_Spence

Local Borough Council: Warrington. Council Tax Band Before: E reduced to D. Amount refunded: £6621. Annual saving going forward: £420/y
3 bed bungalow built 1987. In 1991 extended to 3 bed house, and in response the council upped band from D to E in 1993. I objected at the time, twice, by phone but they said that they were in their rights. I have no formal proof of these challenges other than a basic hand-written record. Dont even know which individual I spoke to at the council. So, in response to Martin's advice a couple of years ago, I decided to try again. Applied Jan 2019 on basis that all 3 beds (ie mine) and indeed some of the 4 beds in my road were Band D. They accepted and refunded. 
What I am very disappointed in is that no account has been taken of inflation in the repayments, hence I have received back very much less than I paid them in real terms. I have tabulated all annual overpayments and adjusted by official ONS RPI/CPI. To my mind fair adjustments would have meant refunds of £9008 (RPI) or £8278 (CPI). If the usual courts adjustment of 8% a year was applied, refund would have been £18262. If we just based it on 2019 difference between D and E, refund of £17902. Gave them this data and spreadsheets.
Basically I'm happy they have reduced banding but I feel disappointed that they have not given me a meaningful refund, given my double challenge! I have contacted them twice since with this info. I have always been a net saver. They asked for proof what I would have done with the extra money, and I said that I would have put the extra in a pension. They said this was not saving. Rubbish!! Has anyone had a refund adjusted for a minimum of inflation (CPI/RPI)?

lincroft1710

Geoff_Spence said:

Local Borough Council: Warrington. Council Tax Band Before: E reduced to D. Amount refunded: £6621. Annual saving going forward: £420/y
3 bed bungalow built 1987. In 1991 extended to 3 bed house, and in response the council upped band from D to E in 1993. I objected at the time, twice, by phone but they said that they were in their rights. I have no formal proof of these challenges other than a basic hand-written record. Dont even know which individual I spoke to at the council. So, in response to Martin's advice a couple of years ago, I decided to try again. Applied Jan 2019 on basis that all 3 beds (ie mine) and indeed some of the 4 beds in my road were Band D. They accepted and refunded. 
What I am very disappointed in is that no account has been taken of inflation in the repayments, hence I have received back very much less than I paid them in real terms. I have tabulated all annual overpayments and adjusted by official ONS RPI/CPI. To my mind fair adjustments would have meant refunds of £9008 (RPI) or £8278 (CPI). If the usual courts adjustment of 8% a year was applied, refund would have been £18262. If we just based it on 2019 difference between D and E, refund of £17902. Gave them this data and spreadsheets.
Basically I'm happy they have reduced banding but I feel disappointed that they have not given me a meaningful refund, given my double challenge! I have contacted them twice since with this info. I have always been a net saver. They asked for proof what I would have done with the extra money, and I said that I would have put the extra in a pension. They said this was not saving. Rubbish!! Has anyone had a refund adjusted for a minimum of inflation (CPI/RPI)?

It would have been the Valuation Office Agency (part of HMRC) not the council who dealt with your band reduction. It could be argued that paying on a higher band than you should have done was your fault because you did not follow procedure and appeal against the band increase in 1993 by completing a hard copy appeal form.

There is no mention in CT legislation about interest on refunds so councils are under no obligation to pay interest thereon. In fact they could be criticised by the auditor if they did pay interest.

Markwilson1907

Wondering if anyone can offer advice on my case?
I am band F, there are another 5 identical bungalows on our estate, 4 in band F and one in band E. The other identical property that is in band E was originally band F but successfully reduced to E in mid 90’s presumably because 99% of sales evidence around April 1991 point to band E.
I have asked my local voa to look at my band (after 6 months) but they say band F is correct. The voa have confirmed that the band E property is identical to mine according to their records. My request to voa was a couple of years ago and I pointed out they have a duty to maintain an accurate list. They have not increased the other identical property from band E to F.
Any advice much appreciated as I haven’t come across any similar cases where a voa (or possibly appeal panel) have reduced a band of identical property but refuse to reduce ours, especially when 99% of sales evidence also points to band E.

lincroft1710

Markwilson1907 said:

Wondering if anyone can offer advice on my case?
I am band F, there are another 5 identical bungalows on our estate, 4 in band F and one in band E. The other identical property that is in band E was originally band F but successfully reduced to E in mid 90’s presumably because 99% of sales evidence around April 1991 point to band E.
I have asked my local voa to look at my band (after 6 months) but they say band F is correct. The voa have confirmed that the band E property is identical to mine according to their records. My request to voa was a couple of years ago and I pointed out they have a duty to maintain an accurate list. They have not increased the other identical property from band E to F.
Any advice much appreciated as I haven’t come across any similar cases where a voa (or possibly appeal panel) have reduced a band of identical property but refuse to reduce ours, especially when 99% of sales evidence also points to band E.

I am ex VOA and the VOA's stance suggest that either

1. having revisited the evidence they have decided that the band of the Band E bungalow should not have been reduced but for some reason they are disinclined to increase it back to Band F.

or

2. The Band E bungalow was the subject of a Valuation Tribunal decision which was a perverse judgement and/or may have been contrary to a previous VT decision. In such circumstances the VOA may consider the latest VT decision does not set a precedent for reducing other bands. In one case I dealt with, the VT decision  was so worded that it intimated it should not be used as a precedent for other cases.

Finally if you are using Zoopla calculated prices or Nationwide or Halifax house price indices, be aware that these are inaccurate. 

Kwood94

I recently challenged my council tax band and it was reduced from F to E this month. I have received a notification from my local council to say that the next 2 payments for 2020/21 have been reduced, I call to ask when and how I would receive the refund of the overpaid council tax since I moved to my current home in 2019. They have told me that no refund is due as the council tax band change was effective from this year. Has anyone else been in this situation? 

Markwilson1907

lincroft1710 said:

Markwilson1907 said:

Wondering if anyone can offer advice on my case?
I am band F, there are another 5 identical bungalows on our estate, 4 in band F and one in band E. The other identical property that is in band E was originally band F but successfully reduced to E in mid 90’s presumably because 99% of sales evidence around April 1991 point to band E.
I have asked my local voa to look at my band (after 6 months) but they say band F is correct. The voa have confirmed that the band E property is identical to mine according to their records. My request to voa was a couple of years ago and I pointed out they have a duty to maintain an accurate list. They have not increased the other identical property from band E to F.
Any advice much appreciated as I haven’t come across any similar cases where a voa (or possibly appeal panel) have reduced a band of identical property but refuse to reduce ours, especially when 99% of sales evidence also points to band E.

I am ex VOA and the VOA's stance suggest that either

1. having revisited the evidence they have decided that the band of the Band E bungalow should not have been reduced but for some reason they are disinclined to increase it back to Band F.

or

2. The Band E bungalow was the subject of a Valuation Tribunal decision which was a perverse judgement and/or may have been contrary to a previous VT decision. In such circumstances the VOA may consider the latest VT decision does not set a precedent for reducing other bands. In one case I dealt with, the VT decision  was so worded that it intimated it should not be used as a precedent for other cases.

Finally if you are using Zoopla calculated prices or Nationwide or Halifax house price indices, be aware that these are inaccurate. 

Hi thanks for your input.  Can I ask your opinion on the responsibility of the voa to keep an accurate list?  A voa official did tell me they believe the other property was in the wrong band but that being the case they should increase it to band F to fulfill their duty to keep accurate list.  Do voa have powers to reverse an appeal panel decision? I wouldn’t have thought so.  It is not actually clear the reduced bungalow went to appeal panel so may have been voa who reduced it, surely if that was the case they would be discriminating if they take a different view on an identical property?

The house prices are from the register of Scotland keeper website not nationwide etc. I’ve also just discovered today that the sale price of an identical bungalow that they said took place in January 1991 is listed on Ros.gov.uk as Nov 1990.  Do you think this could be new evidence to make new proposal?
Can I ask what you would do if you were in the scenario we find ourselves in?
thanks again
mark

lincroft1710

Markwilson1907 said:

lincroft1710 said:

Markwilson1907 said:

Wondering if anyone can offer advice on my case?
I am band F, there are another 5 identical bungalows on our estate, 4 in band F and one in band E. The other identical property that is in band E was originally band F but successfully reduced to E in mid 90’s presumably because 99% of sales evidence around April 1991 point to band E.
I have asked my local voa to look at my band (after 6 months) but they say band F is correct. The voa have confirmed that the band E property is identical to mine according to their records. My request to voa was a couple of years ago and I pointed out they have a duty to maintain an accurate list. They have not increased the other identical property from band E to F.
Any advice much appreciated as I haven’t come across any similar cases where a voa (or possibly appeal panel) have reduced a band of identical property but refuse to reduce ours, especially when 99% of sales evidence also points to band E.

I am ex VOA and the VOA's stance suggest that either

1. having revisited the evidence they have decided that the band of the Band E bungalow should not have been reduced but for some reason they are disinclined to increase it back to Band F.

or

2. The Band E bungalow was the subject of a Valuation Tribunal decision which was a perverse judgement and/or may have been contrary to a previous VT decision. In such circumstances the VOA may consider the latest VT decision does not set a precedent for reducing other bands. In one case I dealt with, the VT decision  was so worded that it intimated it should not be used as a precedent for other cases.

Finally if you are using Zoopla calculated prices or Nationwide or Halifax house price indices, be aware that these are inaccurate. 

Hi thanks for your input.  Can I ask your opinion on the responsibility of the voa to keep an accurate list?  A voa official did tell me they believe the other property was in the wrong band but that being the case they should increase it to band F to fulfill their duty to keep accurate list.  Do voa have powers to reverse an appeal panel decision? I wouldn’t have thought so.  It is not actually clear the reduced bungalow went to appeal panel so may have been voa who reduced it, surely if that was the case they would be discriminating if they take a different view on an identical property?

The house prices are from the register of Scotland keeper website not nationwide etc. I’ve also just discovered today that the sale price of an identical bungalow that they said took place in January 1991 is listed on Ros.gov.uk as Nov 1990.  Do you think this could be new evidence to make new proposal?
Can I ask what you would do if you were in the scenario we find ourselves in?
thanks again
mark

As you refer to Ros.gov.uk I presume you are in Scotland and their CT banding is dealt with by the Assessor and their tribunal system is also different. So I can't really venture an opinion. As you have lived in the bungalow for more than 6 months you cannot make a valid proposal, despite there being a possibility of new evidence. 

lincroft1710

Kwood94 said:

I recently challenged my council tax band and it was reduced from F to E this month. I have received a notification from my local council to say that the next 2 payments for 2020/21 have been reduced, I call to ask when and how I would receive the refund of the overpaid council tax since I moved to my current home in 2019. They have told me that no refund is due as the council tax band change was effective from this year. Has anyone else been in this situation? 

Check the effective date of the reduction here https://www.gov.uk/council-tax-band, if it is 2019 contact the council, if 2021 contact the VOA.

Markwilson1907

lincroft1710 said:

Markwilson1907 said:

lincroft1710 said:

Markwilson1907 said:

Wondering if anyone can offer advice on my case?
I am band F, there are another 5 identical bungalows on our estate, 4 in band F and one in band E. The other identical property that is in band E was originally band F but successfully reduced to E in mid 90’s presumably because 99% of sales evidence around April 1991 point to band E.
I have asked my local voa to look at my band (after 6 months) but they say band F is correct. The voa have confirmed that the band E property is identical to mine according to their records. My request to voa was a couple of years ago and I pointed out they have a duty to maintain an accurate list. They have not increased the other identical property from band E to F.
Any advice much appreciated as I haven’t come across any similar cases where a voa (or possibly appeal panel) have reduced a band of identical property but refuse to reduce ours, especially when 99% of sales evidence also points to band E.

I am ex VOA and the VOA's stance suggest that either

1. having revisited the evidence they have decided that the band of the Band E bungalow should not have been reduced but for some reason they are disinclined to increase it back to Band F.

or

2. The Band E bungalow was the subject of a Valuation Tribunal decision which was a perverse judgement and/or may have been contrary to a previous VT decision. In such circumstances the VOA may consider the latest VT decision does not set a precedent for reducing other bands. In one case I dealt with, the VT decision  was so worded that it intimated it should not be used as a precedent for other cases.

Finally if you are using Zoopla calculated prices or Nationwide or Halifax house price indices, be aware that these are inaccurate. 

Hi thanks for your input.  Can I ask your opinion on the responsibility of the voa to keep an accurate list?  A voa official did tell me they believe the other property was in the wrong band but that being the case they should increase it to band F to fulfill their duty to keep accurate list.  Do voa have powers to reverse an appeal panel decision? I wouldn’t have thought so.  It is not actually clear the reduced bungalow went to appeal panel so may have been voa who reduced it, surely if that was the case they would be discriminating if they take a different view on an identical property?

The house prices are from the register of Scotland keeper website not nationwide etc. I’ve also just discovered today that the sale price of an identical bungalow that they said took place in January 1991 is listed on Ros.gov.uk as Nov 1990.  Do you think this could be new evidence to make new proposal?
Can I ask what you would do if you were in the scenario we find ourselves in?
thanks again
mark

As you refer to Ros.gov.uk I presume you are in Scotland and their CT banding is dealt with by the Assessor and their tribunal system is also different. So I can't really venture an opinion. As you have lived in the bungalow for more than 6 months you cannot make a valid proposal, despite there being a possibility of new evidence. 

Hi, yes in Scotland so appreciate there is slight differences with English system but I think the obligation to keep an accurate list is the same. What’s your thoughts on the accurate list arguments? Sorry to be a pest but one last thing I meant to ask was if you ever came across cases where identical properties within 70 yards of each other were in different bands with or without challenges?
thanks for everything you’ve mentioned so far I really appreciate it.
Thanks
mark

Caparn

I've just had the council tax band on my house changed from Band B to Band A with effect from 01/04/1993.
I'm not sure how much council tax I will get back. I've been living there since 1995 when council tax was about £500 a year it's now about £1400 a year. My question is do they apply interest on the money they owe from years ago or is it just the amount it was back then (25 years ago) when £500 was worth a lot more than £500 is today?