Problems with neighbours in rented accom, what is reasonable?

Catblue

jordylass wrote: »

You could be right, as I don't think of it as her having to follow rules, but all of us coming up with a working compromise. This is her home too and I wouldn't expect her to 'move on' until she wants to. I am not happy about her smoking but she has a right to make her own choices. None of us want those choices to negatively impact on others though.

But making her own choices in this instance mean that you are unable to make your own choices (a smoke-free home and good relationships with neighbours). Your neighbour cannot now make his own choices in this matter.

We don't have to compromise all the time. There are some things that are absolutes for all of us.

If your daughter gets a job and turns up late every day should her employer compromise and allow her to be late twice per week? If your daughter gets a boyfriend and he beats her up twice per week, should she compromise and accept a beating just once per week? If a younger child does not want to go to school in the morning, do you compromise and just make them go in the afternoons only?

Compromise is often a word bandied about by people wanting to get others to bear the consequence of their actions.

You have already compromised by not kicking her out of the house for smoking (which you don't like). Your daughter has not compromised at all. Not one bit.

The problem with your daughter is that her choice is impacting negatively on you, her siblings and her neighbours. The only one that it is not negatively impacting (if you are prepared to ignore the ruinous effects on her health) is HER. Entirely unreasonable for her to make others put up with the consequences of her actions.

And a poor lesson in life for her, as I said.

princeofpounds

Generally agree with the sentiment of the thread. With a few twists.

- I don't think you are being unreasonable by smoking on the balcony or talking until someone complains. It's not immediately obvious this will be a problem, but once there is it needs addressing.

- General 'living' noise (talking without raised voices, walking around) is not unreasonable until night time. At night time it's perfectly reasonable in your home but doing it below someone's window is like standing outside someone's door and talking, potentially very annoying.

- The smoking is just anti-social. You don't like to smell it and believe me it's even stronger smelling to people who don't live with a smoker.

Whilst the annoyance you are causing is probably not sufficient to escalate to legal measures (environmental health generally only pursue noise that isn't normal living) it's enough to alienate you from your neighbours, co-operative and landlord.

Oh, and I meant to say that you clearly are trying to think along the right lines by cosidering the neighbour's point of view, so that's to be commended. So many people just get totally defensive about this sort of stuff without admitting any fault.

Out,_Vile_Jelly

Don't think my brain can physically compute the concept of smoking in or near my parents' house. Guest or rent-payer it's their rules. It would be like flicking channels when my mum's watching ice skating or sitting in The Cat's Chair.

somethingcorporate

It's very selfish and unreasonable, teach your daughter some respect for other people.

Typical "I'm alright Jack" culture pervasive in the youth of today. Selfish.

Just because the letter says noise at 11pm doesn't mean being out smoking and talking at 2am under someone else's window is reasonable. If it was me I would have turned the hose on your daughter "watering" my plants at 2am the first time they did it after I asked them not to.

Sorry if it sounds harsh, I have had my fair share of selfish neighbours and such ignorance makes my blood boil.

ILW

princeofpounds wrote: »

- The smoking is just anti-social. You don't like to smell it and believe me it's even stronger smelling to people who don't live with a smoker.

.

AFAIK it is still entirely legal in or on your own property.

amblondon

Jordylass - actually I disagree. Unless your daughter is also paying for the flat, she's living in your home and she has no "right" to smoke inside or on the balcony. If you are letting her do so, it's not only your daughter who is causing the problem with regard to the smoking - it's you too. Sorry to be blunt.

Cheers

princeofpounds

AFAIK it is still entirely legal in or on your own property

It's legal yes, nothing she is doing is illegal in any sense - it's just anti-social.

jordylass

amblondon wrote: »

Jordylass - actually I disagree. Unless your daughter is also paying for the flat, she's living in your home and she has no "right" to smoke inside or on the balcony. If you are letting her do so, it's not only your daughter who is causing the problem with regard to the smoking - it's you too. Sorry to be blunt.

Cheers

I have difficulty understanding this position, when my children were born they became wanted members of our household, this is their home and I believe they have equal rights with everyone else who lives here. I don;t believe that gives any of us the freedom to infringe on other peoples rights, hence asking what is reasonable.

From the amount of responses I have to conclude that the general opinion is that our neighbour should not have to suffer the affects of her smoking and we were already endeavoring to ensure that.

Thank you for all of your responses.

C.C.L.

There's nothing worse in my opinion than being kept awake by someone old enough to know better. We had a very similar situation ourselves, where the people living next door to us (in a rented property and no smoking allowed) went outside every night to smoke. They were chattering away until sometimes 3am and because our bedroom was at the back where the garden is it stopped us from sleeping, and woke us up when we were asleep.
Even if they didn't stay out there until the early hours, we were still laid in bed waiting for it to happen. Even with the windows shut we could still hear them. We are smokers ourselves, so it was not an anti-smoking problem, it was the disturbance it caused.
Asking them politely to tone it down didn't work, so we phoned the environmental health department who put us through to the anti social behaviour unit. It was anti social behaviour and was dealt with as such.
I honestly think that these days respect for other people doesn't exist for some. There's more to it than just making a noise and the neighbour doesn't like it attitude. There's the going to bed and not knowing if or how long you will sleep, as I mentioned before there's the waiting for it to start, there's when it stops are they going to come out again, there's the exhaustion through disturbed sleep, a feeling of complete and utter hoplessness wondering why should we be kept awake because someone decides that no matter how their actions will affect others they will do it anyway?
Maybe it's the way I was brought up, but I would never knowingly affect someones life in that way, neither would my children or grandchildren either.
At 18 yrs old OP's daughter should show some respect for the neighbour and make alternative arrangements for her smoking on a night time, a small price to pay for a clear conscience IMO.

princeofpounds

There's more to it than just making a noise and the neighbour doesn't like it attitude. There's the going to bed and not knowing if or how long you will sleep, as I mentioned before there's the waiting for it to start, there's when it stops are they going to come out again, there's the exhaustion through disturbed sleep, a feeling of complete and utter hoplessness wondering why should we be kept awake because someone decides that no matter how their actions will affect others they will do it anyway?

Great description.