Is this the criminals' support forum ?

margin

The following thread is little more than an encouragement to criminality. I call upon the appropriate administrator to close it to further postings:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3421385

DirtPoorGuy

And once they have removed that thread hopefully they will remove all of your posts, if there is no free speech you cannot be the exception. Consider yourself lucky you have never been in that situation, it is easy to look at the world through rose tinted glasses when you don't have to endure what others have, these are acts of desperation not wanton criminality.

DCFC79

margin wrote: »

The following thread is little more than an encouragement to criminality. I call upon the appropriate administrator to close it to further postings:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3421385

it doesnt encourage criminality, people are allowed to make they're own decisions

RuthnJasper

I don't think that thread is SO bad, considering some of the postings that have appeared elsewhere before being rightly-banned.

No-one is condoning some of the actions taken described therein and, looking at the earlier pages, one or two posts HAVE been removed.

I've had the recent misfortune to be in the position where I haven't known how I'd afford food, and was only helped out by the kindness of others. Sometimes genuine desperation leads people to uncharacteristic things which, ordinarily, they would be ashamed of. Although I disapprove strongly of pilfering of any kind, I have found that particular thread to be quite helpful. It's good to read the posts from those who once had to go to relatively extreme lengths and who have now found a way out of such dire straits. They give me hope.

ceridwen

Well - its certainly a very "mixed" thread.

Some posts are honest ones - of things people did in desperation - but that werent criminal in any way (eg walking long distances/going cold/going hungry/etc) and those people I feel sorry for and I think many of us have had to make some pretty odd economies when there was little or no money. I'll chuck into the mix having had several YEARS:eek::mad::( of having to live in accommodation I doubt anyone would live in by choice and that I was ashamed to bring people back to - but it was all I could afford:(

On the other hand - on this thread - there does seem to be an awful lot of tales of people thieving AND not a sign of anyone else seeming to recognise that it was wrong. In fact there is rather an attitude in some posts of "Well - what else could they do?":eek:

So - on balance - I think the thread DOES need to be deleted - ie because the overall impression it gives (because of the high number of posts mentioning thieving to survive) is that that this is acceptable. It obviously ISNT.

So - yep - I'll second that it would be best to remove (or at least lock) the thread because of that type of post on it. I think leaving it would seem to suggest that MSE condones thieving.

RuthnJasper

ceridwen wrote: »

So - yep - I'll second that it would be best to remove (or at least lock) the thread because of that type of post on it. I think leaving it would seem to suggest that MSE condones thieving.

Fair point. Can't say I'd argue with that.

esuhl

^^ But isn't that a choice for the site administrators? I mean, if someone posted a message on Facebook that said, "I sometimes break the speed limit.", I wouldn't lobby other Facebook users to demand that the post be deleted in case other people thought that Facebook approved of speeding! That would just be bizarre!

Can't people just stop reading if they disagree with the point of a thread, or debate the issues on the thread itself, rather than silence other people's conversation, as inadvisable as some of the statements may be...?

ceridwen

The Facebook argument is a non-starter. Facebook is purely and simply a "social media" outlet and meant specifically for "chat".

MSE's whole raison d'etre is as a moneysaving site. There is a lot of chat on here as well BUT it is primarily a moneysaving site. Therefore leaving a thread up that has such a high emphasis on thieving as a way of moneysaving does indeed imply that thieving is a valid way of moneysaving - which obviously it isnt.

Valid ways of moneysaving include things like swopping bill supplier/shopping around/cooking from scratch/growing your own/making things generally that most people would buy readymade/paying off debts as fast as possible/etc - not thieving.

************

Re the "silencing other peoples conversation" argument - well its useful to know the sort of thing some other people will do (ie the better to defend oneself against being the victim of them doing it to us) - but personally I would prefer not to be any more disillusioned about human nature than I already am. I DO also think it will encourage some people to do criminal type things that they otherwise wouldnt - most people are such copycats and if they see others doing things like this and (apparently - bearing in mind karma) getting away with it then it might well encourage them to do so too.

Former_MSE_Andrea

Hi everyone

If you feel there are posts in the thread that we should be aware of can you report them to the Forum Team as usual please?

Thanks!

margin

DirtPoorGuy wrote: »

Consider yourself lucky you have never been in that situation

DirtPoorGuy wrote: »

these are acts of desperation not wanton criminality.

I think you'll find that this is the sort of rationalization that most criminals apply to their actions.

HarryL

I agree with the fact that it shows MSE in a bad light to let such a thread continue with obvious descriptions of thievery and the like. However the thread was not created as a means to boast about criminal activity and we should respect that and maybe just delete the posts that show the worst cases of criminality. for example I'd keep the post stating they stole toilet paper from work. but delete the ones stating they stole from shops or friends or family members.
As for the argument of monkey see (or read in this case) monkey do then should we not put a stop to watchdog? and LA Law? and CSI? and Midsummer? and dumbest criminals? or the 10 O'clock News? all feature criminal activity and some even discuss it. If someone is stupid enough or desperate enough to delve into the criminal underworld and toilet paper black market then that is their choice and what may become of their choice is also their problem. The Free speech argument holds so really the only question here is does MSE have a problem with this thread? because they are the only people with the right to do anything about it.