Graduates now 'more likely to end up as cleaners', official figures show

gadgetmind

PaulW1965 wrote: »

Businesses need that like a hole in the head.

If we get a really good placement student (and we do see some crackers!) then we will sponsor them through their final year.

There is also talk of us somehow having an ongoing involvement with any good work experience students we see, but the timescale is such that our needs and desires might diverge over the four years (A2s and then 3 years at uni.)

kabayiri

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14683133

We have pumped billions into the education system over the last decade.

So where is our Google, our Amazon, our Apple ?

Methinks Eric is right.

BACKFRMTHEEDGE

kabayiri wrote: »

We have pumped billions into the education system over the last decade.

So where is our Google, our Amazon, our Apple ?

Methinks Eric is right.

To be fair, there are plenty of "great" British companies. However, they all get bought. I'm thinking Autonomy being bought by HP, Cadburys by Kraft, etc

Lokolo

gadgetmind wrote: »

If we get a really good placement student (and we do see some crackers!) then we will sponsor them through their final year.

There is also talk of us somehow having an ongoing involvement with any good work experience students we see, but the timescale is such that our needs and desires might diverge over the four years (A2s and then 3 years at uni.)

Yep and I don't see why your company couldn't sponsor Electronic Engineering / Computer Science degree courses at local university. The exposure both your company and the university would get would increase - for example, students are more likely to choose to university knowing that a company feel as though it's a good enough course and they have a chance to work for your company (in placement or graduate job), and if they are good enough get financial help during their final year.

greenmoneysaver_2

If you can now get onto a degree course with 2 E grade A levels, is it really a degree course?

There are too many degrees, and many that take people with little previous experience of the subject, meaning time spent covering things at sub-degree level.

Having taught on these courses they are a sham, and do not produce robust graduates.

gadgetmind

greenmoneysaver wrote: »

If you can now get onto a degree course with 2 E grade A levels, is it really a degree course?

No. The student is being scammed, the tax payer is being scammed, and employers are being scammed. Perhaps we need a "thee Bs minimum" for *all* degree courses.

There are too many degrees, and many that take people with little previous experience of the subject, meaning time spent covering things at sub-degree level.

Those running the courses need to establish and enforce standards. Those who don't make the grade don't get the place. Here in industry, we'd rather have an empty seat than the wrong person sat in it. Why should education be any different?

Having taught on these courses they are a sham, and do not produce robust graduates.

Employers have their own tests so we know the real deal when we see it. People spending three year and loads of £££ on a shoddy degree are being taken for a ride.

olly300

gadgetmind wrote: »

Particularly in English?

Actually having worked with people who have English as an additonal language some of their spelling and grammar is worse than mine.

The foreign students/people with the best language skills have tended to have been those on law courses.

gadgetmind

olly300 wrote: »

Actually having worked with people who have English as an additonal language some of their spelling and grammar is worse than mine.

The foreign students/people with the best language skills have tended to have been those on law courses.

What blows me away if how little of the English language seems to be taught in English lessons in the UK. Basics such as parsing sentences and the rules of punctuation seem to be skipped in favour of more esoteric and "creative" activities.

Pennywise

Callie22 wrote: »

I do think though that 'industry' does need to take some responsibility for the lack of skills in this country. The responsibility for training seems to have been pushed from employers to individuals - university (allegedly) provides that training so it stands to reason that people are going to take courses that they believe will give them the skills for work. Employers can't have it both ways - they either need to offer training, or tailor degrees to match their specific needs (and sponsor students to take them) or they need to accept that they're not going to get people applying who have the exact skill-set that they need.

But nor can the employees have it both ways. If an employer has to give on the job training to get a person up to standard, then it costs them a lot of money, and the employee should accept a minimum/basic wage. Far too many graduates expect top salaries when they're simply not able to do the job with their current skill-set. It's another expectation gap.

I speak from experience. A while ago, I engaged an accountancy graduate on a relatively decent salary and naively expected them to be able to prepare a set of accounts. How wrong could I have been. I ended up having to send them on a local college course for basic book-keeping before they were any good to me. I'm the first to put my hand up for accepting blame - I should have checked what an accountancy degree covered and made a fundamental mistake by assuming it covered preparing a set of accounts!

gadgetmind

Pennywise wrote: »

I should have checked what an accountancy degree covered and made a fundamental mistake by assuming it covered preparing a set of accounts!

We now leave little to trust when it comes to recruiting and use our own tests, that we wrote ourselves, and which we've been using for long enough to be able to trust them.

Of course, if the higher education degrees/qualifications were more demanding, we wouldn't need to be quite so thorough!