Graduates now 'more likely to end up as cleaners', official figures show

IronWolf

bendix wrote: »

What do people expect? There are only so many good jobs around; do people really think their degree in football management studies from Great Yarmouth University is going to have any real value in the real jobs world?

it was hard okay!


The labour market actually responds in part to supply. If u put more graduates in then more graduate jobs become available, companies open skilled centres in your country. Up to a point though

gadgetmind

IronWolf wrote: »

If u put more graduates in then more graduate jobs become available

I'm not sure. Yes, more employers will require you to have a degree, but will these really be graduate level jobs that need the skills and knowledge acquired on that particular degree?

I really do think the cost of a degree should be borne by the employer, so employing a graduate is more expensive. So, if you get a degree in horse psychology or golf course management, you'd better be sure that this makes you more valuable than someone bright who hasn't gone to university.

We demand good degrees in relevant subjects for those roles that need them. For specialist areas such as accounting we need to see appropriate qualifications in those areas. For admin staff, security, warehouse stackers, facilities management, cleaners, etc., why on earth would we need someone to have a degree to perform that task?

kabayiri

gadgetmind wrote: »

....
We demand good degrees in relevant subjects for those roles that need them. For specialist areas such as accounting we need to see appropriate qualifications in those areas. For admin staff, security, warehouse stackers, facilities management, cleaners, etc., why on earth would we need someone to have a degree to perform that task?

Fair point.

Higher Education here is 2 things. It has a utility function to higher educate the populace, but it is now also a business generating significant revenue by attracting foreign students. Evan Davies noted this in his recent series.

The incoming student loan system may dissuade many potential students that the further education option isn't for them.

So H.E will have to adapt if numbers go down.

Will we see more intensive 18 month / 2 year courses ? That would keep living costs down. Will we see a lot more part time release courses, sponsored by employers ?

I'm hoping it all shakes and settles down before my children have to make their choice. I wouldn't envy those deciding next year, it's a tough choice.

lostinrates

bendix wrote: »

What do people expect? There are only so many good jobs around; do people really think their degree in football management studies from Great Yarmouth University is going to have any real value in the real jobs world?

Although I agree with this there are other more traditional degrees that it could be argued are also not so relevant.

Philosophy....it could be argued there are more jobs in a more lucrative market relating to foot ball than there are now to ''thinking''. History of Art...which was fairly traditional to do if you didn't know what else to read and fancied yourself a bit (my sister read that ). DH read a similar traditional but not very likely to get a job in subject. The argument in favour of these might be that they show some intellectual rigour thats missing from these ''new'' subjects.....but I don't know if that's valid or not.

misskool

vivatifosi wrote: »

I'm with Callie here. What does it matter if people are cleaners? The reason a good cleaner can earn £15 p/h has nothing to do with how good someone is with a bottle of bleach. A good cleaner (who will have excellent references and probably a waiting list) is far more than that. They are discreet so that they never talk about what they may find out. They are reliable so and trustworthy and will never take anything from the house. They are able to work on their own, without supervision. They get the job finished on time in order to earn their pay and get their money in. On a small scale, these are the sort of skills people need to run a business.

If people start out as cleaners, postmen or anything else mentioned in the article and it gives them a start, fair play to them.

I admire cleaners I was a maid in a hotel once and I couldn't hack the job. I am not a tidying/cleaning person and will happily pay for my house to be respectable.

People have different skills and everyone should be allowed to use their skills to their advantage. Part of that is probably not getting all snobby when someone isn't academic and saying you need a degree.

You don't need a degree in plumbing for me to employ you as a plumber.

misskool

kabayiri wrote: »

So H.E will have to adapt if numbers go down.

Will we see more intensive 18 month / 2 year courses ? That would keep living costs down. Will we see a lot more part time release courses, sponsored by employers ?

I'm hoping it all shakes and settles down before my children have to make their choice. I wouldn't envy those deciding next year, it's a tough choice.

I don't really think the numbers will go down quickly, it's too ingrained for people to "need" to go university, it will take many years of change.

I certainly hope that courses aren't shortened (or if they are, they won't be called degrees), if students don't learn enough in 3 years, how will they learn enough in 18 months/2 years?

Maybe we should go back to technical colleges, polytechnics and universities, a bit of distinction between qualifications would be helpful.

lostinrates

misskool wrote: »

I admire cleaners I was a maid in a hotel once and I couldn't hack the job. I am not a tidying/cleaning person and will happily pay for my house to be respectable.

People have different skills and everyone should be allowed to use their skills to their advantage. Part of that is probably not getting all snobby when someone isn't academic and saying you need a degree.

You don't need a degree in plumbing for me to employ you as a plumber.

Yes, I agree, but I also don't feel its any way wrong for my theoretical (and theoretically adored!) cleaner to have an interest and knowledge insomething unrelated to degree level or above.

Education isn't JUST about employent, its about fulfillment. The ''traditional'' uni model however with loans and now fees might not be best placed, certainly not with debt involved, for a ''hobby'' engagement with learning.

lostinrates

misskool wrote: »

Maybe we should go back to technical colleges, polytechnics and universities, a bit of distinction between qualifications would be helpful.

On my degree course HND students sat in on the same lectures, but were expected to do ''less'' with the information, then had the same ''extra'' time to make up to a degree. It was possible to get a degree with no a levels or GCSEs if you came up the long route. Whoich I'm not in itself opposed to, its just the degree wasn't the same thing, because the skill base was different, and the academic rigour was ''lesser'' though the applied skill to industry...not to the actual subject, might have been better tested in many of the conversion students. It was a stupid syste...though did save the course provider a hell of a lot of money...two courses for the price of one set of lectures.

ukcarper

I wonder how much work the average university student puts in to get a degree compared with some one doing the same thing without going to university. In my day to get on a degree level course you had to have HNC with endorsements I extra year. The course then consisted of 3 years of 1 day and 1 evening then you had to pass externally set exams.

lostinrates

ukcarper wrote: »

I wonder how much work the average university student puts in to get a degree compared with some one doing the same thing without going to university. In my day to get on a degree level course you had to have HNC with endorsements I extra year. The course then consisted of 3 years of 1 day and 1 evening then you had to pass externally set exams.

On ours, it was the same academic time, and lectures, but a year's placement for the HND. The degree course also operated as a sandwich course but the role had to be a ''science'' role, for the hnd it had to be an ''industry role'' and didn;t require a ''science'' aspect.