Can we be evicted for using our rent to fix the boiler?

may_fair

pararct wrote: »

Without a tenancy agreement you are on very dodgy ground. Even if you had such an agreement and upset the LL with unreasonable demands he can ask you to go at the conclusion of that agreement.

A short term tenancy (less than 3 years) in England/Wales can be orally agreed; it doesn't have to be in writing.

Therefore, OP has an assured shorthold tenancy. Perfectly valid and not 'dodgy' at all. LL cannot evict without serving proper notice and obtaining a court order.

may_fair

Semi_Quaver wrote: »

- I do not have a tenancy agreement, I've never seen one for the flat, let alone signed one. Neither has one of the other two tenants (not sure about the third).

Note that unless and until the LL provides you, in writing, with an address for serving notices under s.48 Landlord and Tenant Act 1987, no rent is lawfully due (as soon as the address is provided, all arrears immediately fall due). I'm not recommending that you stop paying rent, however; just telling you the legal position, which would be relevant if, say, the LL made a possession claim based on unpaid rent.

What is legal here and who has what rights? I have no idea on the laws around these issues or what the right course of action is...

You have a legal tenancy. The LL has statutory repairing obligations, which include repairing the boiler. You must, however, give him a reasonable opportunity to carry out the repair; you can't just arrange your own engineer within 24 hours of reporting the disrepair (especially after having cancelled the LL's engineer). You are not entitled to withhold the rent on the basis of the disrepair.* You can only do that if you follow the procedure linked to by kmmr in post #4.

*But you could on the basis of LL failing to provide an address for serving notices.

G_M

Now that you've had advice on the repair, and seen the Shelter process for getting it done (yourself!!!), I would just add

1) start getting proof of your rent payments. If you are paying cash, insist on a receipt and don't pay without one. Or pay by Standing Order, cheque, or internet bank payment, which provides proof of payment.

2) Ask for an address for the LL (in Eng/Wales). As said above, you do not legally have to pay rent without getting this in writing ( though I too would caution against witholding rent till absolutley necessary)

3) Have you paid a deposit? If yes, a( have yu a receipt and b) is it in a registered scheme?

Get the repairs sorted first, but then start sorting out the above points.

Semi_Quaver

I moved in in November 2010 and I paid the previous tenant a deposit of £500, it was explained to me that when I move out, the next person to move in will pay me £500 and that's how each tenant gets their deposit back.

I didn't even meet the landlord until he was here counting the rent one day, he didn't even notice I was new. So there isn't even a verbal agreement really.

I pay the rent monthly, in cash, into the kitchen drawer :rotfl:

My bank statements will show that I take out the same amount in cash every month...

I don't get receipts and I don't know what his address is and I feel like if I ask for either, he'll refuse and maybe threaten to give me notice (like he did today).

Yorkie1

I can't even start to unpick the number of things wrong which your LL is doing. Hopefully others who are more experienced than me can do so.

One thing I would say, though, is that he can't just throw you out on the streets without giving you proper notice. Essentially, if he uses improper means to get you out then the Protection from Eviction Act 1977 makes it a criminal offence ... imprisonable ... to do so. If he tries to do that, get straight onto the phone to the police.

I'm assuming you've never seen a gas safety certificate either?

G_M

Your deposit situation is risky. Basically, you have NOT paid the landlord a deposit, so he has no duty to pay it back. You are dependant on a completely unknown person (if they even exist when you move out) to give it to you in the way you did. Nothing you can do though. The only person who owes you the deposit is the ex-tenant who moved out since that's who you paid it to!

Sort out the cash payments.

What is the set up? Is it a house/flat? Do you have 'exclusive use'? (live there alone? share with another tenant?/ the landlord?)

If you are renting the entire property, with exclusive use, the LL cannot come in without your permission. Change the locks. Ask for an address and don't pay rent without an address and a receipt. Change the locks. (Yes, I know I said that before. But he's taking the p*ss so protect yourself. CHANGE THE LOCK. Any attempt to break in, call the police.

Unless of course the LL lives there too, or it's an HMO.

Who pays the Council Tax? As occupier it should be you. This will help if you ever need to prove your tenancy there. Same with gas/electricity bills. Are they in your name?

In reserve, bear in mind a LL like this is almost certainly not paying tax on the rent (cash in a drawer? :rotfl:)

See here.

If he has a mortgage (check the Land Registry here £4 for the 'Title' then read section 3 'Charges Register), he almost certainly does not have the bank's permission to rent. You could (threaten to) shop him.

Semi_Quaver

It's a single-story flat. There are three tenants living here: Myself, my friend & a girl who has lived here for 5 years. The Landlord lives somewhere else. The three of us pay all the bills.


I don't really want to have the expense of changing the locks and I don't want to start p*ssing off the landlord for no reason by witholding rent and making demands on him... the rent here is cheap considering the type of flat / location and I don't want to upset things...

I have got the title/registry document although I don't understand it. Here's an excerpt from section 3 which I guess means he owes and is continuing to pay mortgage payments. But can't you get a mortgage which allows you to let? Maybe he has one of those. But even if it is an illegal renting situation, should I be worried?

"The proprietor of the Charge dated DAY MONTH YEAR referred to above is under an obligation to make further advances. These advances will have priority to the extent afforded by section 49(3) Land Registration Act 2002."

thegirlintheattic

This is not in Bromley by Bow by any chance is it?

You can't really complain about not getting speedy repairs if you are happy for this situation to continue because it is cheap. You probably can legally but...jeez.

I'd, personally, get out as soon as possible.

Werdnal

Semi_Quaver wrote: »

It's a single-story flat. There are three tenants living here: Myself, my friend & a girl who has lived here for 5 years. The Landlord lives somewhere else. The three of us pay all the bills.


I don't really want to have the expense of changing the locks and I don't want to start p*ssing off the landlord for no reason by witholding rent and making demands on him... the rent here is cheap considering the type of flat / location and I don't want to upset things...

I have got the title/registry document although I don't understand it. Here's an excerpt from section 3 which I guess means he owes and is continuing to pay mortgage payments. But can't you get a mortgage which allows you to let? Maybe he has one of those. But even if it is an illegal renting situation, should I be worried?

"The proprietor of the Charge dated DAY MONTH YEAR referred to above is under an obligation to make further advances. These advances will have priority to the extent afforded by section 49(3) Land Registration Act 2002."

You can get mortgages that allow letting, but with the other things you have mentioned being a little "dodgy" - cash rent, no LL address etc, me thinks LL may be avoiding tax, or letting without permission. Other than the fact that he may be committing fraud (obviously nothing to do with you), the mortgage company could withdraw his mortgage and repo the place (might bother you if you want to stay long term). LL may also be breaching other obligations, ie lack of gas safety cert for the boiler you are having problems with (could that perhaps be why he wants to use his own "pet" engineer, rather than calling someone out of the phone book who might ask a few too many questions?). Annual gas safety cert is a legal requirement for letting properties - hope you have a working CO2 meter just in case

G_M

Semi_Quaver wrote: »

I don't really want to have the expense of changing the locks( what, £5 is 'expense'? See here.) and I don't want to start p*ssing off the landlord for no reason by witholding rent and making demands on him...(then stop complaining! - either you have a problem you want help with, or you are happy with the set-up) the rent here is cheap considering the type of flat / location and I don't want to upset things...

I have got the title/registry document although I don't understand it. Here's an excerpt from section 3 which I guess means he owes and is continuing to pay mortgage payments. But can't you get a mortgage which allows you to let? Maybe he has one of those. But even if it is an illegal renting situation, should I be worried?

"The proprietor of the Charge dated DAY MONTH YEAR referred to above is under an obligation to make further advances. These advances will have priority to the extent afforded by section 49(3) Land Registration Act 2002."

Need to see the 'Charge referred to above, but sounds like there's a mortgage.

Yes, maybe he has permission to rent. But cash payments = tax avasion. To evade tax, he can't tell anyone (eg mortgage bank) he is renting. So I'll bet 10 to 1 he has no permission.

I mentioned the tax and mortgage issues as "In reserve". Not recommendations to act on now, but to let you know so that if you get nowhere with resolving things you can use them (or hint to him that you might use them).