Can we be evicted for using our rent to fix the boiler?

Semi_Quaver

Hi!

- I live with two other people in a flat in Tower Hamlets.
- We have to pay our rent in cash (maybe the Landlord is tax dodging?).
- I do not have a tenancy agreement, I've never seen one for the flat, let alone signed one. Neither has one of the other two tenants (not sure about the third).

Our boiler broke yesterday, here's the series of events.

Last night:

6pm - boiler stopped working. Other tenant's brother is ex-british gas, we called him and on his advice fiddled around for an hour but to no avail.
7pm - called the landlord to ask if he can get it fixed. landlord arranges for his own engineer to come over to fix things 'later in the evening'. I call the engineer multiple times to see when he'll be coming.
10pm - he lets me know he's on another job but will be approximately 30 mins. Other tenant notices the boiler is working again, has a shower. I text engingeer to let him know everythings working great.
10:15pm - boiler not working again! clearly needs somebody to look at it. I immediately text the engineer and explain, he informs me he's already gone to another job because of my prior text and he'll try and get over later.
11.45pm - engineer won't come because it's too late but agrees to come at lunch or after work the following day (Wednesday).

Today:

10am - called engineer who said he should be in the area at 2pm and he'd call me 'after 2pm'. I go home at this time and receive no calls.
3pm - call engineer, no answer
4pm - call engineer, no answer
5pm - call landlord who says he'll get somebody else to come tonight. and he'll let me know.
6pm - call landlord and ask for an update, he doesn't have one. I ask if he can chase up the engineer and get back to me as myself and the other tenants are not willing to spend yet another day without hot water to shower & clean with when there are people who will come out within 30mins and fix a boiler. I explain that if we don't hear back by 7.30pm then we'll call somebody ourselves and use this month's rent to pay them and that we'll give the receipt along with the remainder of the rent on collection day.

The landlord then says that if we do that he'll have to give us notice and that there are a lot of people interested in the flat etc...

What is legal here and who has what rights? I have no idea on the laws around these issues or what the right course of action is...

please help!

Thank you in advance,
SQ

evoke

Nothing is legal there.

Dodgy landlord and dodgy tenants = a match made in hell!

kmmr

Wow - hold your horses! So the LL had arranged an engineer to come and visit within FOUR HOURS of you telling him there was a problem, and you cancelled him.

Then at close to midnight he took your call and tried to organise it again, and now for one afternoon the plumber has been held up again. And in that time you are already on the web trying to get support to justify withholding rent?? Do you perhaps think you are being a little unreasonable?

kmmr

Here is the process for doing repairs yourself: http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/repairs_and_bad_conditions/repairs_in_private_lets/tenants_doing_repairs

but I think you won't yet get past the first step which is:

"Step 1: report the repairs to the landlord in writing and allow time for them to be done. Keep a copy."

Semi_Quaver

evoke wrote: »

Nothing is legal there.

Dodgy landlord and dodgy tenants = a match made in hell!

What makes us dodgy? Is it because we're being a bit trigger happy?

kmmr wrote: »

Wow - hold your horses! So the LL had arranged an engineer to come and visit within FOUR HOURS of you telling him there was a problem, and you cancelled him.

Then at close to midnight he took your call and tried to organise it again, and now for one afternoon the plumber has been held up again. And in that time you are already on the web trying to get support to justify withholding rent?? Do you perhaps think you are being a little unreasonable?

I cancelled the engineer because the boiler was seemingly working again but I rescinded the cancellation within 15 mins. It wasn't the landlord I was liaising with all evening, he just gave me the number of the engineer in the first place - it's the engineer I was speaking to...

And yes, I do now think I'm being unreasonable! I don't know why I didn't think I was being unreasonable before but it's only just coming up to the 24 hour mark... I guess that is pretty bad... It's just the frustration of knowing that an engineer can come out within the hour but the landlord (understandably) wants to use his own, cheap guy...

Semi_Quaver

Also, @kmmr, thank you for that link - very, very hand reading! Although I'm not sure what the deal is WRT not actually having a tenancy agreement!

pararct

Without a tenancy agreement you are on very dodgy ground. Even if you had such an agreement and upset the LL with unreasonable demands he can ask you to go at the conclusion of that agreement.
You will have some rights as you are paying rent (you are of course keeping receipts?). Establish those rights first through the Shelter website (above) before you do anything else.

Its the middle of August, have a cold shower if there is no hot water. What do you think they used to do before they central heating was widely installed? Millions of people do every day.

Semi_Quaver

pararct wrote: »

Without a tenancy agreement you are on very dodgy ground. Even if you had such an agreement and upset the LL with unreasonable demands he can ask you to go at the conclusion of that agreement.
You will have some rights as you are paying rent (you are of course keeping receipts?). Establish those rights first through the Shelter website (above) before you do anything else.

Its the middle of August, have a cold shower if there is no hot water. What do you think they used to do before they central heating was widely installed? Millions of people do every day.

Hey Pararct, thanks for your response. I've just sent a text of apology to the landlord & thanked him for trying to get this sorted so quickly. My eyes were really opened by reading the lengthy process required to legally and fairly ask the landlord to fix things and, if needed, use rent money to do so!!

I am happy to admit when I'm in the wrong or not being fair, this is one such instance! I feel like a fool now

We do not get receipts for our rent, would you believe. Pretty dodgy affair all round. I'm interviewing for jobs in NYC in a couple of weeks so hopefully I'll be out of this dodgy predicament entirely in a couple of months!

Peace,
SQ

pararct

Semi_Quaver wrote: »

Hey Pararct, thanks for your response. I've just sent a text of apology to the landlord & thanked him for trying to get this sorted so quickly. My eyes were really opened by reading the lengthy process required to legally and fairly ask the landlord to fix things and, if needed, use rent money to do so!!

I am happy to admit when I'm in the wrong or not being fair, this is one such instance! I feel like a fool now

We do not get receipts for our rent, would you believe. Pretty dodgy affair all round. I'm interviewing for jobs in NYC in a couple of weeks so hopefully I'll be out of this dodgy predicament entirely in a couple of months!

Peace,
SQ

The answer is simples then..... Keep on the good side of the LL and hope he moves to repair the boiler quite quickly.....

If he does not then write to HMRC when you land the job in New York and tell them you were a long term tenant at the address with Mr X as the landlord who strongly insisted that all rent payments were made in cash.:j
Course you could do this even if he repairs the boiler quite quickly....as it looks very much he is trying to avoid declaring income.

kmmr

I do understand how frustrating it can seem as a tenant when you don't have control over fixing something. I am a very self-sufficient person, and it used to drive me crazy when I was a tenant to have to rely on someone else's timing - so I do understand the annoyance!

However, it does sound like the LL is reacting quite quickly. Please remember that boilers can be very expensive, and a single emergency callout can cost hundreds of pounds. I paid over £400 to fix a single part once when I used one of those quick call out companies. So I think it's reasonable in the middle of summer to wait for the LL to be able to use his preferred supplier.

Remember that if you were the owner you would probably be in the same situation - it is often very hard to get tradesmen out at very short notice. I've never managed to get a same day visit, although British Gas are usually quite good at getting out in one day - they often don't get the job done in one go though.

good luck!

Yorkie1

pararct wrote: »

Without a tenancy agreement you are on very dodgy ground. Even if you had such an agreement and upset the LL with unreasonable demands he can ask you to go at the conclusion of that agreement.
You will have some rights as you are paying rent (you are of course keeping receipts?). Establish those rights first through the Shelter website (above) before you do anything else.

Without a written tenancy agreement the law will imply an AST with all the protections and responsibilities which that affords. The difficulty is in proving some of the elements of the AST.

When did you move in? Did you pay a deposit (I assume if so, you've not received confirmation of its protection in a scheme)? How often do you pay rent? As pararct says, have you any record of the payments at all? (e.g. receipts, rent book, cash withdrawal evidence from your bank statement).