Contracting and travel expenses.

Regshoe

I'm surprised that nobody else has pointed out the possibly more fundamental issue here, are you truly contracting with this nursery as a self employed individual, or should you in fact be treated as an employee?

There are a number of factors that influence this distinction, but the key point is it's not a choice - it's based on the nature of the relationship.

Take a look at:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/leaflets/es-fs1.pdf

It may well be that you are truly self employed, but everything I've seen so far in this thread points the other way:

• They provide the equipment.
• There seems to be an expectation of continuing work, unless they say otherwise (albeit in seasonal blocks)
• For this line of work you only have the one employer.

The fact that the amount of work is variable may point towards self-employment, but isn't necessarily enough on it's own.

That said the issue of self-employed Vs Employed is probably a bigger issue for the Nursery than it is for you.

chrismac1

The last post seems to me to display a lack of knowledge of IR35 cases - as opposed to what HMRC so helpfully (sorry about this piece of sarcasm) put on their website.. For one thing there have been various cases - Google Marldon 2011 if you want more details on the most recent - where being stood down for just 2 weeks has been held to be evidence of self-employment, never mind 6 months. So in my view there is no ongoing relationship here. So in one of the three major IR35 hurdles, HMRC are going to fall at the first.

We can look at direction and control and substitution too - the other 2 main tests - but for me there is no chance HMRC will get "ongoing relationship" through a Tribunal, so nothing to worry about.

Regshoe

chrismac1 wrote: »

The last post seems to me to display a lack of knowledge of IR35 cases - as opposed to what HMRC so helpfully (sorry about this piece of sarcasm) put on their website.. For one thing there have been various cases - Google Marldon 2011 if you want more details on the most recent - where being stood down for just 2 weeks has been held to be evidence of self-employment, never mind 6 months. So in my view there is no ongoing relationship here. So in one of the three major IR35 hurdles, HMRC are going to fall at the first.

We can look at direction and control and substitution too - the other 2 main tests - but for me there is no chance HMRC will get "ongoing relationship" through a Tribunal, so nothing to worry about.

Although the tests may be essentially the same I would point out that this is a case of Employment Vs Self Employment rather than services provided through an intermediary, so not strictly what IR35 was brought in to combat. You are correct though - my knowledge of IR35 is fairly limited (though I am aware that HMRC have not so far had a particularly good track record in tribunals).

Googling Marldon 2011 brought up nothing unfortunately. I would have thought though that the way in which you are stood down is important. If you can be stood down at any point without significant notice this would presumably be different to signing up to do say 3 months work from the outset. For example if you were to work for Argos over the busy christmas period each year you are clearly going to be an employee not a contractor.

I must take exception with one part of your post though, how dare you impugn the helpfulness of HMRC, they are some of the most helpful, competent, customer service focused.....ok I can't keep a straight face any more :rotfl:

Edit: You are also right about the difference between HMRC's interpretation of the law and judges - I've been reading about the recent cases with regards to imposing fees and interpretation of "Reasonable Excuse" with interest

I think I may have slightly hijacked the thread here though....apologies!

hubb

I sign no contract and I tend to get very short notice of termination of working. So should I go for claiming the travel ? I have to fill in my self assessment very soon.

hubb

I sign no contract and I tend to get very short notice of termination of working. So should I go for claiming the travel ? I have to fill in my self assessment very soon.

Cook_County

As others have said you are arguably an amployee - not self-employed.

There is a considerable risk if you did claim such expenses.

Much recent case law has focused on disclosure. You need to disclose in the white space precisely what you do in each role and why you believe that items that could be grey such as travel are deductible. By doing this you are protecting yourself from discovery.

prowla

If your base is your home, then you can claim your travel as a business expense, for up to 2 years working at a given location and probably beyond that if you are going to multiple locations.
There is a published mileage rate.

Sambucus_Nigra

hubb wrote: »

I sign no contract and I tend to get very short notice of termination of working. So should I go for claiming the travel ? I have to fill in my self assessment very soon.

All the work I do privately gets charged from home to their premises.

As mentioned, you take the decision based on your interpretation of the rules; if you don't understand them then an accountant may be needed.

bobthedambuilder

I would claim for your travel expenses.

I worked as an employee for a construction company on jobs all around the UK (and abroad). In between these, I would report into the Head Office for periods until another job came around. During this time, I would claim mileage from home to the HO (which was 100 miles away) and accommodation as travel expenses, and this was invariably accepted - I was told that there was an agreement with HMRC that the "posting" to HO was regarded as a temporary one for up to 12 months. (After that, I would be regarded as permanent HO staff and would have had to negotiate other arrangements).

While not a direct comparison to your situation, it does demonstrate that for temporary situations, your home can be regarded as your starting point = place of work, and travel from there to your temporary place of work is part of your business expenses.

hubb

Thanks. On that basis I will claim because I do work at home.