Contracting and travel expenses.

hubb

I am self employed in media work from home but I also contract myself out 3 days a week at a horticultural nursery as another string of income. I invoice the time worked and they pay into my business bank account.

Last year I worked from May to October and again this April and have so far not been told I won't be needed. The work is seasonal but it depends on the amount of work they have to offer as the economic climate has been uncertain.

As I use my car to get there and back I have been clocking the mileage for when I do my self assessment. Even though the work is regular, can I claim travel expenses ?

MacMickster

No. You are not incurring the travel costs in the course of your business. You are just getting to the place that you do your business.

hubb

Oh, I thought any travel during your business (in business time and involving your business) would be part of your expenses.

Are you sure ?

John_Pierpoint

It is a grey area.
We had a thread on here a few months ago, where a self employed chippy was having to quote for and then perform work all over the country.
He found himself with half a dozen jobs a year in the 6 corners of the kingdom and sometimes dodging between them.
The tax man was trying to say that his premises, where he and his wife tendered for the work and did the book keeping, was not his place of business. In fact he had a series of "permanent" work places. So getting there and coming home at the weekend to see his wife was not allowable.

We the poachers on this forum won that one eventually.
It would help if you had multiple customers and needed to take your own tools to the site(s).

If you start from the point of view that tax rules are arbitrary and subject to "mission creep", you won't go far wrong.

In France a commuters season ticket is tax allowable - that is a simple way of getting cars off the road, subsidising French railways and cutting carbon emissions.

hubb

So can I claim or not ?

antrobus

hubb wrote: »

So can I claim or not ?

The answer is, yes you can claim it as an expense on your self assessment return. But then you can claim anything back as an an expense on your SA return, it's self assessment, no one is going to automatically question it or subject you to the third degree. The real question is what would happen if HMRC had reason to look at your tax affairs and ask questions about your travelling expenses.

They might, as suggested above, take the view that the horticultural nursery was your permanent place of business (or at least one of them) and that travel to and from that location was not allowable. Or they might not. In many cases, the possibility that HMRC might seek to challenge something you've done is just a business risk you have to accept.

HappyMJ

hubb wrote: »

So can I claim or not ?

I would take the risk and claim.

hubb

If it's a grey area surely they won't come down heavy on you if they did investigate.

John_Pierpoint

There is another similar thread here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3338232

It includes links to the HMRC manual which includes a self employed milkman who was judged as commuting to the depot to collect the float.
(If I remember correctly) Similarly HMRC counts a representative's journey to get to his allocated area as commuting.

Do you use a sign painted van for the gardening work?

chrismac1

Here is the plan if you were my client - prepare for much gnashing of teeth and wailing from HMRC employees!

1. You claim the mileage.
2. You get fee protection insurance if possible (may not be if you are doing your own.)
3. You read up on the 3 cases HMRC have lost in 2011 (out of 3!) in this area, you make notes of the aspects of those you will seek to rely on if your return becomes the subject of an enquiry or any other interest from HMRC.

Then if the worst comes to the worst, you can quickly reply to the HMRC person - who may not even be aware of these cases! - and put the ball firmly in their court to come up with a counter-argument. Suddenly in their eyes you are not a helpless small sub-contractor victim, you have teeth and claws and you look like you can land blows!

hubb

No, I don't have a sign painted van. Just a car. I am only contracting to this particular company. No others. I don't have my own tools.