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Garage covered up warning lights, engine blew

13

Comments

  • pendulum
    pendulum Posts: 2,302 Forumite
    Ash132 wrote: »
    Would I need to prove that the blocked lights are relevant to the engine failure? I would have hoped that the very fact they blocked them off at all would be enough that a judge would decide I should get my money back like Flyboy says!?
    Unlikely IMO. Being a mechanic you would be suing, I am sure the argument that the lights were unrelated to the engine failure would be brought to the attention of the court.

    There's a rather high probability that the lights had nothing to do with the engine failure, as well.

    It's quite like taking your car in for a suspension part, and finding they just bodged a repair rather than replaced the said part. That is dishonest, but it doesn't make them responsible for an engine failure further down the line.

    In my opinion you have the right to get the Traction Control, Stability Control, and the underlying reason for the Check Engine light fixed, but their responsibility ends there.
  • bod1467
    bod1467 Posts: 15,214 Forumite
    What about consequential events? (Probably making up this term). What I mean is ... if the OP had seen the lights he would have taken action to resolve the cause, and such action would have increased the likelihood of finding a fault that subsequently led to the engine failure. Is the garage's alleged negligence not a contributing factor?
  • pendulum
    pendulum Posts: 2,302 Forumite
    bod1467 wrote: »
    ... and such action would have increased the likelihood of finding a fault that subsequently led to the engine failure.
    This is one big assumption, though. What if the Check Engine Light just referred to the usual things (a bad O2 or MAF sensor, or an emissions control system leak?). The rectification of those issues would not lead to the discovery of an internal engine problem.

    The garage could have fixed the ABS sensor (or whatever the problem turned out to be) to get the Traction Control and Stability Control working again, and changed an O2 sensor to fix the Check Engine Light, and the engine would still have died a few months later.

    I think it would be a good idea to get the code(s) from the ECU read to see what they actually say. If you find a code that warns of the impending engine doom, and it's dated before the engine died (no idea if more sophisticated code readers can retrieve a date - mine cannot), then you might have a case. If it just relates to an O2 sensor, then frankly I don't think there's much point in persuing it, because an O2 sensor would not cause catastrophic engine failure and the garage aren't responsible.
  • pendulum
    pendulum Posts: 2,302 Forumite
    Ash132 wrote: »
    These engines are that expensive I assure you. There are two on ebay at the moment both at £1650 and both are for other cars that use the same engine (Celica t-sport and lotus Elise)
    Are they new engines? I'm talking about buying used.

    After a quick eBay check, it seems I can buy another 2002 Corolla T Sport for that money with the engine included, so there's no way used engine prices alone will be that high.
  • Ash132
    Ash132 Posts: 11 Forumite
    Is that not misrepresenting the goods? At no point was I told about the cover up (obviously), even after specifically asking why it didn’t appear on the preignition, and someone clearly knew about it. Under sale of goods act this would be a breach.

    Unfortunately the ECU which has been without power now for some time has not saved any information as we did try and get something out of it so that is now not an option.

    I have said refund rather than repair to put me back to where I was before as the cost of repair would be more than the value paid of the car so this would be the most likely outcome. If they wish to try and repair it that is fine but I would have thought unlikely. I am not worried which way that goes.
  • Ash132
    Ash132 Posts: 11 Forumite
    pendulum wrote: »
    Are they new engines? I'm talking about buying used.

    After a quick eBay check, it seems I can buy another 2002 Corolla T Sport for that money with the engine included, so there's no way used engine prices alone will be that high.


    Yes that is for used engines, without ancillaries usually too so more added cost getting them all switched over. The 2ZZ-GE is used in the Celica T-Sport, Lotus Elise and modern MR-2s (to name a few) which are all of higher value which would appear to be keeping the prices buoyant. I agree you can occasionally get Corolla T-Sports for less than £2k so maybe there is a business opportunity for folk there buying those and striping them for parts! Having said that as the spares merchants I talked to about buying the car "its next to worthless without the engine".

    I would also say the costs in swapping out an engine are also very expensive, have yet to be quoted less than a grand for that for this car, mate did have his done for £600 once but it only lasted a couple weeks.
  • arcon5
    arcon5 Posts: 14,099 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    bod1467 wrote: »
    What about consequential events? (Probably making up this term). What I mean is ... if the OP had seen the lights he would have taken action to resolve the cause, and such action would have increased the likelihood of finding a fault that subsequently led to the engine failure. Is the garage's alleged negligence not a contributing factor?

    I agree, but proving consequential losses in ops case would be quite difficult. As where he would usually be paying petrol, wear and tear ect he now pays taxis, bus fairs so his consequential losses although some financial, would more so be that of convenience -- how do you put a value on that?

    That is if he could prove the lights was a factor in preventing the problem. As there is equally a chance that if the lights was on any garage could have missed what is the cause of the problem.

    Then I suppose it could just turn into 'what is this happened..' 'what if that happened..'.

    For example, if you took the car in to replace a tired and they missed the fact you had a slow puncture which in turn meant you had to pay for recovery later in your journey, could you get compensation from the garage?

    The point i'm making is even with working lights, if a light came on and it was for a completely independant problem and they didn't notice other issues then the lights have not contributed to the outcome.


    Imo op, I think that would probably be looked on as professional negligence rather than fraud.


    But again, this is just my views on it. A professional or a judge may take a completely different view.
  • scheming_gypsy
    scheming_gypsy Posts: 18,410 Forumite
    I'd try a different garage to be honest. A grand is way too expensive; garages charge per hour and at £40 an hour you're looking at about 3 days to swap an engine.
  • DCodd
    DCodd Posts: 8,187 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    Ash132, you need to get this engine checked and a report of what is thought to have been the fault that caused the engine failure and boy is that an engine failure!

    Whether it is the garage's fault could well be down to the code that the diagnostics shows. The check engine light is usually the MAF or O2 sensor as stated before but it can be a cam timing fault, see here for another person with similar issues.
    Always get a Qualified opinion - My qualifications are that I am OLD and GRUMPY:p:p
  • Ash132
    Ash132 Posts: 11 Forumite
    DCodd wrote: »
    Ash132, you need to get this engine checked and a report of what is thought to have been the fault that caused the engine failure and boy is that an engine failure!

    Whether it is the garage's fault could well be down to the code that the diagnostics shows. The check engine light is usually the MAF or O2 sensor as stated before but it can be a cam timing fault, see (removed as I an new and cannot post links)for another person with similar issues.

    Agreed I need to get an engineers report. Can this be any other garage or someone specific do you know?

    As I say the ECU has not saved any info as far as I could see but this was using a friends diagnostics machine connected to a laptop so could do with a second pass.

    I just so happened to mention this garage to a colleague here who said they have had no end of problems with a car they bought from them a few years ago, very poor customer service was the overriding thing. Cowboys.
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