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Garage covered up warning lights, engine blew
Ash132
Posts: 11 Forumite
Hi there, sorry this is a bit long.
I bought a 2002 Toyota Corolla T-Sport from a local garage in late July 2010 on hire purchase under my mothers name. Within a couple of weeks the engine check light, the vehicle stability control (VSC) and the traction control off (TRC OFF) all came on at once. I took the vehicle immediately back (one of about 5 times it went back for various problems, none of which were sorted satisfactorily) as it came with a 3 month warranty . The car was returned a number of days later and indeed those three lights were no longer illuminated. Within a couple days however I noticed the engine check light was not coming on during the preignition. Again took it back as I was not happy about that but was told that they had done some checks and there definitely was no faults and the light would come on if there was a problem. For reasons I still don't understand I took their word on this and took the vehicle back. Fast forward to April 2011 and while driving home the engine has a catastrophic failure. From what I can tell one of the con rods has snapped and punched its way through the block. End result is the engine is completely destroyed and the cost of a repair outweighs the value of the car (second hand engine alone is £1500-2000). At least I had my AA membership from when I had to get one after the offside rear brake dismantled itself due to another bodged repair (honestly for a supposedly serviced and MOTd car I am now amazed at how many things are wrong with it) so got a tow home. I initially tried to get the garage to take it back or at least buy it back at a decent price but they were not interested so decided to try and sell it as is. At this point I was unaware of how a hire purchase agreement worked nor the rights I had. With no success with that either I decided to part out the vehicle to release some value from it. The first item I sold happened to be the instrument cluster which I sent off. Within days the gent I sold it to emailed me to say he had opened up the unit, because he wanted the coloured LEDs my model had,
and found a large amount of black silicon sealant had been injected into the plastic surround of three of the warning lights, which just to happened to be the engine check, VSC and TRC OFF lights. I was of course livid at this news and gave the guy a full refund to return the unit which he was more than happy to do.
At this point knowing that the only time the car had been out of my possession was the time it was with the garage I was 100% sure they were the ones responsible. As I was completely unaware of what to do in this situation I contacted consumer direct who put me on to trading standards who advised I would have to go see the garage first to see if the situation could be resolved that way first. Both my father and I dutifully went along with the pictures of what was found but the owner said he sometimes sends out vehicles to other garages and would need to do some investigations so we agreed that he would call me within a week. Not surprisingly there was no call so I called a week after the meeting to be told he had found nothing out (didn't sound like he had even tried in my opinion) so said I would call again within a few days again. I was by now looking in to the legal aspects of all this and realised the car was purchased on hire purchase and as such I should contact the finance company also. I called them and explained the situation to generally be told that because it was 2 weeks over a year since the purchase they were unwilling to do anything about it. They also said that I should not be selling off parts of the car. I now know that indeed I should not have tried selling parts but at that point only the cluster had been sold so with its return I put all the removed parts back on the car so it was in the same condition as after the engine failure (in fact better as I replaced a few of the screws/bolts that had rusted and sheered ). The follow up call to the garage 5 days later was much the same as before so I stated that no matter who did it, it was his responsibility to put right as the person who sold me the car and whose care it was under at the time the silicon was injected in the cluster and said I wanted a full refund. He laughed at this and at my saying I would take it further if need be before saying that was my prerogative and hanging up. Incensed I again called the finance company so I could confirm the address to send a complaint to and that if written permission was added that they could deal with me despite the policy being in my mothers name. This was one of the more interesting calls I have had with a 'professional' company with such phrases as 'I can guarantee we are not going to do a thing about it mate', 'I wouldn't even bother sending the letter' and brilliantly now I know more about hire purchasing 'why are you even contacting us about it? You should deal with the garage, I fail to see what it has to do with us'. Before the call ended one of the things they said was along the lines of that if I tried to complain they would call in the loan as I had breached the contract by taking parts off to sell. Now I do understand why they would recall the loan but the way it was said and in the context I took that as a threat.
This is basically where I am now and not sure what to do next. I want to send a letter to the finance company but I do not have the money to hand to cover it if they recall the loan. Can they do this even though as soon as I knew that I shouldn't sell items I got the only one I had sold back made every effort to rectify what I had done, which as I say has brought the car back to the condition before I started removing stuff? I know ignorance isn’t an excuse but I honestly had no idea about hire purchases, sale of goods acts etc and was just trying to get some value out of the vehicle. I got in contact with trading standards but they said as far as they are concerned I have no options as it would all be too difficult to prove anything etc. I should add I have a bit of supporting evidence in so much that back in August 2010 I made a post on a Toyota owners club forum that the 3 lights in question had come on and that I was suspicious that they did not come up on the preignition check when I got the car back (I still to this day wish I had followed up on those suspicions but I have a trusting nature and took they guys word for it). The guy that bought the cluster is also willing to write any necessary supporting statements as to what he found
If anyone can advise me at all it would be greatly appreciated as all of this is making me feel very ill and I just want these folks to put right what they have done and hopefully not do it to anyone else!
Some further info:
Toyota Corolla T-Sport 2002
Mileage ~ 83000
Purchase price £3450 (£3000 after £450 trade in)
Date on HP agreement: 26th July 2010
Engine blew on April 9th 2011, AA receipt copy is being sent out.
If I am missing anything or you need more info just ask.
Thanks in advance
Ashley
I bought a 2002 Toyota Corolla T-Sport from a local garage in late July 2010 on hire purchase under my mothers name. Within a couple of weeks the engine check light, the vehicle stability control (VSC) and the traction control off (TRC OFF) all came on at once. I took the vehicle immediately back (one of about 5 times it went back for various problems, none of which were sorted satisfactorily) as it came with a 3 month warranty . The car was returned a number of days later and indeed those three lights were no longer illuminated. Within a couple days however I noticed the engine check light was not coming on during the preignition. Again took it back as I was not happy about that but was told that they had done some checks and there definitely was no faults and the light would come on if there was a problem. For reasons I still don't understand I took their word on this and took the vehicle back. Fast forward to April 2011 and while driving home the engine has a catastrophic failure. From what I can tell one of the con rods has snapped and punched its way through the block. End result is the engine is completely destroyed and the cost of a repair outweighs the value of the car (second hand engine alone is £1500-2000). At least I had my AA membership from when I had to get one after the offside rear brake dismantled itself due to another bodged repair (honestly for a supposedly serviced and MOTd car I am now amazed at how many things are wrong with it) so got a tow home. I initially tried to get the garage to take it back or at least buy it back at a decent price but they were not interested so decided to try and sell it as is. At this point I was unaware of how a hire purchase agreement worked nor the rights I had. With no success with that either I decided to part out the vehicle to release some value from it. The first item I sold happened to be the instrument cluster which I sent off. Within days the gent I sold it to emailed me to say he had opened up the unit, because he wanted the coloured LEDs my model had,
and found a large amount of black silicon sealant had been injected into the plastic surround of three of the warning lights, which just to happened to be the engine check, VSC and TRC OFF lights. I was of course livid at this news and gave the guy a full refund to return the unit which he was more than happy to do.
At this point knowing that the only time the car had been out of my possession was the time it was with the garage I was 100% sure they were the ones responsible. As I was completely unaware of what to do in this situation I contacted consumer direct who put me on to trading standards who advised I would have to go see the garage first to see if the situation could be resolved that way first. Both my father and I dutifully went along with the pictures of what was found but the owner said he sometimes sends out vehicles to other garages and would need to do some investigations so we agreed that he would call me within a week. Not surprisingly there was no call so I called a week after the meeting to be told he had found nothing out (didn't sound like he had even tried in my opinion) so said I would call again within a few days again. I was by now looking in to the legal aspects of all this and realised the car was purchased on hire purchase and as such I should contact the finance company also. I called them and explained the situation to generally be told that because it was 2 weeks over a year since the purchase they were unwilling to do anything about it. They also said that I should not be selling off parts of the car. I now know that indeed I should not have tried selling parts but at that point only the cluster had been sold so with its return I put all the removed parts back on the car so it was in the same condition as after the engine failure (in fact better as I replaced a few of the screws/bolts that had rusted and sheered ). The follow up call to the garage 5 days later was much the same as before so I stated that no matter who did it, it was his responsibility to put right as the person who sold me the car and whose care it was under at the time the silicon was injected in the cluster and said I wanted a full refund. He laughed at this and at my saying I would take it further if need be before saying that was my prerogative and hanging up. Incensed I again called the finance company so I could confirm the address to send a complaint to and that if written permission was added that they could deal with me despite the policy being in my mothers name. This was one of the more interesting calls I have had with a 'professional' company with such phrases as 'I can guarantee we are not going to do a thing about it mate', 'I wouldn't even bother sending the letter' and brilliantly now I know more about hire purchasing 'why are you even contacting us about it? You should deal with the garage, I fail to see what it has to do with us'. Before the call ended one of the things they said was along the lines of that if I tried to complain they would call in the loan as I had breached the contract by taking parts off to sell. Now I do understand why they would recall the loan but the way it was said and in the context I took that as a threat.
This is basically where I am now and not sure what to do next. I want to send a letter to the finance company but I do not have the money to hand to cover it if they recall the loan. Can they do this even though as soon as I knew that I shouldn't sell items I got the only one I had sold back made every effort to rectify what I had done, which as I say has brought the car back to the condition before I started removing stuff? I know ignorance isn’t an excuse but I honestly had no idea about hire purchases, sale of goods acts etc and was just trying to get some value out of the vehicle. I got in contact with trading standards but they said as far as they are concerned I have no options as it would all be too difficult to prove anything etc. I should add I have a bit of supporting evidence in so much that back in August 2010 I made a post on a Toyota owners club forum that the 3 lights in question had come on and that I was suspicious that they did not come up on the preignition check when I got the car back (I still to this day wish I had followed up on those suspicions but I have a trusting nature and took they guys word for it). The guy that bought the cluster is also willing to write any necessary supporting statements as to what he found
If anyone can advise me at all it would be greatly appreciated as all of this is making me feel very ill and I just want these folks to put right what they have done and hopefully not do it to anyone else!
Some further info:
Toyota Corolla T-Sport 2002
Mileage ~ 83000
Purchase price £3450 (£3000 after £450 trade in)
Date on HP agreement: 26th July 2010
Engine blew on April 9th 2011, AA receipt copy is being sent out.
If I am missing anything or you need more info just ask.
Thanks in advance
Ashley
0
Comments
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You already have questions you need to respond to on your other thread.0
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You already have questions you need to respond to on your other thread.
I have just looked at that thread and apart from stupid comments along the lines of "it's his own fault because he didn't get the car checked," there aren't any questions at all.The greater danger, for most of us, lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low and achieving our mark0 -
Ashley
You do seem to have made a few mistakes regarding this, but I think you need to talk to Trading Standards and Citizens Advice, before taking any more steps, please do not remove any more items from the car, as you will get yourself into a lot more bother.The greater danger, for most of us, lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low and achieving our mark0 -
From other thread:
I'm thinking they think the damage could be caused by negligence....surely the cam belt which sounds like it snapped should of been changed @ 80k?
I'd stop mentoning the 'tried selling parts and discovered the problem' bit to them aswell.0 -
From other thread:surely the cam belt which sounds like it snapped should of been changed @ 80k?
I'm thinking they think the damage could be caused by negligence....
I'd stop mentoning the 'tried selling parts and discovered the problem' bit to them aswell.
That is not a question though, is it really. Even if it was, it is only the one.
The greater danger, for most of us, lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low and achieving our mark0 -
Apologies this is the forum I should have put this in so if there are rules against duplication the other one can be removed.
I do understand I have made mistakes, due to a lack of knowledge, so am trying my best to rectify these. I certainly am down playing the selling for parts bit by the finance company were very eager to bring it up again and again during the second call (I only realised I shouldn't have done that during the first call when I mentioned it).
If it is the cam belt that's gone would I be covered by the virtue they said the car was "fully serviced" when I got it and was not due one for a few months after the engine actually went?
Trading Standards have stated there is nothing they can do, CAB will almost certainly take a similar tack. I am just sick about all of this because the whole idea of me getting this car it I had a number of very old unreliable cars before so decided to spend the cash and get something more reliable only for this to happen. I am currently driving my bosses old MR-2 from 1989 with 120000 miles on the clock, has seen better days but it hasn't missed a beat and he is allowing me to pay it up when I can, can't thank him enough for that.0 -
Apologies this is the forum I should have put this in so if there are rules against duplication the other one can be removed.
I do understand I have made mistakes, due to a lack of knowledge, so am trying my best to rectify these. I certainly am down playing the selling for parts bit by the finance company were very eager to bring it up again and again during the second call (I only realised I shouldn't have done that during the first call when I mentioned it).
If it is the cam belt that's gone would I be covered by the virtue they said the car was "fully serviced" when I got it and was not due one for a few months after the engine actually went?
Trading Standards have stated there is nothing they can do, CAB will almost certainly take a similar tack. I am just sick about all of this because the whole idea of me getting this car it I had a number of very old unreliable cars before so decided to spend the cash and get something more reliable only for this to happen. I am currently driving my bosses old MR-2 from 1989 with 120000 miles on the clock, has seen better days but it hasn't missed a beat and he is allowing me to pay it up when I can, can't thank him enough for that.
You don't know this unlesss you ask.
What state is the car in now as regards the parts being sold?The greater danger, for most of us, lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low and achieving our mark0 -
I will certainly give them a call tomorrow and see what they say.
All parts are with the car although some are removed. The ones removed are ones that would need to be to get access for an engineers report on the engine, front bumper, valences, radiator etc. All can be put back in a couple of hours to and equal or better condition than before.0 -
Op, if I was you I would put the car back together then see if a garage would come out to the car and have a report done on it to find the cause of the fault. Once you know the cause and have an independant report you will be in a much better position.0
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