Can a ESA50 form be typed ?

sangiar

I have two things to ask.

What is the point in the DWP asking for details of GP and consultants, if they very very rarely contact them? It does lead the claimant (me included) to assume that the DWP will contact them for a report.

And it is all right in saying that people should seek help of others to get these reports, maybe they don't know how to, maybe they don't know who to ask and maybe they are too ill to actually go tramping the streets looking for help. Getting help from DIAL, CAB and others is a very much hit and miss affair now.

I thought that the responsibility attached to making a claim was for the relevant government department to 'disprove' a claim, not for the claimant to 'prove' it. Signing the declaration attesting to the contents being true should be sufficient. In fact only until recently you were actively discouraged from sending any evidence in! The question of having to 'prove' entitlement becomes the responsibility of the claimant as and when an appeal has been lodged!

sangiar

NASA wrote: »

I know some arent capable but its up to them to get help or up to people to actively help them.

QUOTE]

Rubbish, that is what the DWP wish everybody to believe. Since when has it been a requirement that the claimant has to 'prove' entitlement beyond signing a declaration? Where in the regulations or in the Decision Makers handbook does it say that it is for the claimant to prove AND provide substantive evidence to claim entitlement?

It is for the DWP to find good reason to refuse a claim - THEY have to find the evidence to refuse.

This is simply nothing more than attempting to put the responsibility of making a claim on the shoulders of the claimant to save money for the government.

NASA_2

sangiar wrote: »

I have two things to ask.

What is the point in the DWP asking for details of GP and consultants, if they very very rarely contact them? It does lead the claimant (me included) to assume that the DWP will contact them for a report.

And it is all right in saying that people should seek help of others to get these reports, maybe they don't know how to, maybe they don't know who to ask and maybe they are too ill to actually go tramping the streets looking for help. Getting help from DIAL, CAB and others is a very much hit and miss affair now.

I thought that the responsibility attached to making a claim was for the relevant government department to 'disprove' a claim, not for the claimant to 'prove' it. Signing the declaration attesting to the contents being true should be sufficient. In fact only until recently you were actively discouraged from sending any evidence in! The question of having to 'prove' entitlement becomes the responsibility of the claimant as and when an appeal has been lodged!

No, the claimant is always required to prove their entitlement to benefit, that is why they have to send in evidence for various parts of the claim ie. details of savings or sick notes etc.

If it is unreasonable for the claimant to obtain the information then the department can look into getting the information directly.

NASA_2

sangiar wrote: »

Rubbish, that is what the DWP wish everybody to believe. Since when has it been a requirement that the claimant has to 'prove' entitlement beyond signing a declaration? Where in the regulations or in the Decision Makers handbook does it say that it is for the claimant to prove AND provide substantive evidence to claim entitlement?

It says it here:

Evidence and information7.—(1) Every person who makes a claim for benefit shall furnish such certificates, documents, information and evidence in connection with the claim, or any question arising out of it, as may be required by the Secretary of State and shall do so within one month of being required to do so or such longer period as the Secretary of State may consider reasonable.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1987/1968/regulation/7/made

sangiar

NASA wrote: »

No, the claimant is always required to prove their entitlement to benefit, that is why they have to send in evidence for various parts of the claim ie. details of savings or sick notes etc.

If it is unreasonable for the claimant to obtain the information then the department can look into getting the information directly.

Yes they do have to send in a sick note, and if a means tested benefit, details of other income.

But what you are saying is that it is the responsibility of the claimant to produce enought evidence to support the claim for ESA above and beyond the sick note - ie OT assessments, Social workers reports, GP reports, Consultant reports etc.

What I said was is that it is NOT a requirement to supply that level of evidence to support an initial claim for ESA.

However if you are directed by the DWP to supply........ report, then you still have the option do it or tell the DWP to do it because it is difficult for you to comply.

That is totally different than being 'required' to submit evidence, other than a sick note to the DWP. It is for the DWP to prove that you aren't entitled to it.
And besides which how often do the DWP issue a notice to a claimant to supply a particular type of evidence? I've never heard it happen.

The obligation of the claimant is to make a claim and support it with a sick note. There even isn't a requirement to fully complete the ESA50! The DWP may say they would like it completed, theymay say you should, but there is no requirement. Otherwise, some claims would fail on receipt of the ESA50!
Onve a claim is registered, it is for the DWP to make a decision on it and not critcise the claimant for not sending in any evidence.

Personally I am a little fed up with government departments trying their best to push responsibility over to the claimant when there is no legal basis for it other than to save money.

If they wish to issue a directive that I must supply something then I will comply!

sangiar

Error in replying twice to the same post

sangiar

NASA wrote: »

It says it here:

Evidence and information7.—(1) Every person who makes a claim for benefit shall furnish such certificates, documents, information and evidence in connection with the claim, or any question arising out of it, as may be required by the Secretary of State and shall do so within one month of being required to do so or such longer period as the Secretary of State may consider reasonable.

That is a directive, and is not part of the normal process of making a claim for ESA.
Anyhow why would they even consider issuing a directive like that when they already hold all of the details of the medics involved. Just much easier for the DWP to write to the medics by using form ESA113!

Why should the claimant be put to any more time and trouble when it is clear that the DWP have the clear ability to obtain the confirmatory evidence themselves. Or is this just a case of saving money fo rthe government due to lack of staff and resources - ahhh I feel so sorry for them!

rogerblack

sangiar wrote: »

NASA wrote: »

Or is this just a case of saving money fo rthe government due to lack of staff and resources - ahhh I feel so sorry for them!

To be fair - looking at it from a global POV - it would put a quite large burden on GPs and other doctors, if they were more involved in the process, they'd have to be appropriately compensated for this.

sangiar

rogerblack wrote: »

sangiar wrote: »

To be fair - looking at it from a global POV - it would put a quite large burden on GPs and other doctors, if they were more involved in the process, they'd have to be appropriately compensated for this.

I agree with you entirely, but that is not what NASA is saying. NASA tells us that we, the claimants must produce the evidence and it is not for the DWP to apply for it.

Either way, GP's & other doctors will be swamped no matter who is asking for the info.

Better for the DWP to apply for it, because they can pay the fee (if one is due) and they have more 'power' to demand the report!

As I understand it, form ESA113 is there for that purpose, but it is very rarely used - I wonder why?
Why, according to NASA, should the claimant be put to the time and trouble to get these reports when it is quite clear that there is a system already in place for the DWP to do it, but chose not to use it.

NASA_2

Its a case of claimants doing what is their job to do - supporting their claim to benefit.

I never said it was a requirement to supply consultant reports etc. but if the claimant wants it taken into account then they should obtain it
and send it in - they should not expect their job to be done for them. The DM should make a decision based on all available information. If the information isnt provided then that is the claimants problem.