Unsupported deductions made from deposit

ukbilly

Hi,
I wonder if anyone could advise this newbie?

When my deposit was returned in October by my former letting agency, deductions were made for admin (this is in the tenancy agreement) and cleaning. In fact there was a discrepancy between what we were told we would get by one employee and the amount the cheque was made out for. As there was no documentary support for the cleaning and the odd circumstances surrounding the discrepancy, my housemates and I visted them in person with a letter making our case. After some stalling they said we would get what we asked for.

6 weeks later in early December we had heard nothing and we sent another letter by recorded delivery. Unfortunately no-one was in to sign for it and they did not call for it subsequently so it has now been returned to me. Another letter will be hand-delivered through their door and this will be independently witnessed. If still nothing is heard it will be a letter before action.

Should this get to County Court, what exactly can I claim? I'm I right in thinking that it would be the outstanding amount plus 8% per day?

My other questions concerns the money they have returned. We haven't paid in the cheque because we did not want to give the impression that we accept the amount. I can't see anything in the contract or final statement that says that the cheque represents a final amount so we might be OK. However, the cheque is almost 3 months old now. Is it in danger of expiry? Would we be safe in cashing the cheque? It's for over £700 and that's an awful lot to be without for this length of time.

One other thing, the deductions have VAT charges applied to them. Does this give us further potential avenues to explore? Could I take it up with the local VAT office?

Any thoughts are very gratefully received. Thanks.

inmypocketnottheirs

How much is the difference between what you received and what you were expecting to get?

If a judgement was entered, you would be entitled to 8% p.a. on the amount entered upto the date of the judgement,

Paying the cheque in would not in my opinion mean that you accept the amount, although I would not hang around waiting to pay a cheque in either.

Cheque generally expire after 6 months.

Not sure why you think there is a problem with VAT on the deductions. If the agency has been charged VAT they are entitled to pass this cost on to you.

Hope this helps.

ukbilly

Hi inmypocketnottheirs andf thanks for the reply.

The difference between what we were expecting and what we got is about £105.
The story is that about 40 days after the end of the tenancy my housemate and I went to the letting agency to ask about the return of the deposit because the tenancy agreement states it should be returned within 30 days. We spoke to a chap in the office who checked his files and told us that the amount to be returned would be £823.xx. This was after an admin charge and a cleaning fee of £55+VAT. That was on 19 October.
A cheque (dated 20 October) was received 3 days later for £718 and the cleaning charge on the statement was now not £145+VAT. ie an apparent £90 increase in 24hrs.

If this was simply a clerical error and the cleaning was for £145+VAT and they have the documents to prove it, then fine. But when I delivered my first query letter on 25 October, the guy in charge made excuses that the original amount we were told was just an estimate and stated that the total cleaning charge was for more than we had been charged for anyway. i.e. "we were doing you a favour". This might also be true but no documents have been produced to prove it and therefore we don't know that any such work has been carried out. The point is that he said that we would get the evidence we wanted but nothing has been received.

With regard to the VAT charges, I'm not saying that this is unfair. My question is that if receipts/invoices for the cleaning are not produced and VAT is being charged, there must be a paper trail and the amount of any work done could be calculated that way. If the agency does not provide me with documentation that I am legally entitled to see, could I write to them stating that I am taking it up with the local VAT office? I wonder how they might react to that.
Any thoughts on that? Cheers.

clutton_2

re the cheque - if the letter (which came with the cheque) offered you the money "in full and final settlement" - if you cash it without writing to them, saying that you do not accept it is in full and final settlement you will not be able to make a claim further down the line. Even if no letter accompanied it, you still need to write and say you accept this as part settlement of this amount. Cleaning costs need to have 3 different estimates and you are entitled to see these.

8% per day !!!! i wish !!!!!! 8% per annum is what is offered by the courts.


You might want to hunt out Eagerlearners thread on here - it is huge and is all about getting a deposit back from the landlady from hell - you will learn all you need to know from it.

irnbru_2

clutton wrote:

You might want to hunt out Eagerlearners thread on here -

Don't be put off by the length of the thread, all straight forward.

ukbilly

Thanks, clutton. I just found the eagerlearner thread (all 49 pages of it so far!) and I'm sure it will be useful. And we'll be sure to state in any letters that we do not regard the cheque received as full and final.

I had no idea that cleaning costs required three estimates. Any further info, links etc. on this are greatly appreciated.

Regarding the interest rates, I clearly haven't correctly followed what it says here: http://england.shelter.org.uk/advice/advice-3007.cfm

= = =
Interest can be claimed from the date your deposit should have been returned until the date you start your claim, and then at a daily rate. Interest is calculated at 8%. If you want to claim interest, you have to say so on your claim form.
= = =

What does "and then at a daily rate" mean in this context? I apologise if I'm being a bit thick!

clutton_2

if you were claiming 8% per day compounded - on a debt of £100 you would be claiming £171.38 after one week !!!!!!!!!

What i think this means is that you calculate how much interest you would get for a year @ 8% uncompounded, then divide that by 365 and multiply by the number of days of the claim.

ukbilly

Well my reminder letter caused the letting agency to act when they called me up to say that I could see the evidence they have for the cleaning costs. I would rather they responded in writing but I'm planning to go up to their office at the end of the week.

I'm fairly sure that they did not obtain estimates for the work from any other sources. Based on what they have said in the past, they go to the same people for this type of job. Therefore I'm sure they will show me something but whether that means the work was (or needed to be) carried out is something else. I will scrutinise any receipts closely but I don't know how much I can do to follow things up. I will certainly

The second thing is that they say that the total amount for the work carried out is greater than what we were charged for. Thus the receipts we expect to see will be for greater than £145+VAT. I'm concerned about this. Who bore the additional cost? Did the LA pay for everything and recoup the rest rom the landlord? How did they calculate what to pass on to us?

Does this sound like a sensible practice to anyone? Does it happen often?

As ever, any advice is very gratefully received. Thanks.

ukbilly

I have finally got a copy of the invoice for cleaning. The total amount was for £225 of which £80 was paid by the landlord and £145 was passed to me and my housemates. The invoice istself is a generic-type that you might be able to buy in an office supplies store. All of the fields are completed by hand and there is no company logo or anything like that.

For now I have two concerns:

1. I have a company name and an address (no tel no.) for the people who did the cleaning. So far I have not been able to find this company in any local directory or via a google search. The closest I have come is to find a company specialising in refrigeration that has an online listing giving the same address but this might be outdated information. I'll try to go there myself to take a look but surely there must be a register that I can search through to check that such a firm exists but I have no idea where to look. Any suggestions are welcome.

2. It isn't entirely clear who has charged VAT. If it was the cleaning company then why is the total given only '£225' and not '£225+VAT'? It might just be an oversight, I suppose. In any case, this company would have to registered for VAT, right?. Is there a way I can check online? or do I have to contact my nearest tax office?
Just to check, the letting agency couldn't have added the VAT charge themselves, could they? A cleaning company is probably subject to VAT but I ask because the only note on the invoice about the VAT is in a text box added by the agency.

Sybarite

Nope you're right they wouldn't necessarily be VAT registered. If they are LTD then you'll find them in the Companies House listings. However they probably aren't & it's just the LA's mate Bob, who as you suggest has an invoice book from the local corner shop. You're unlikely to find him. IMHO better to dispute the charge than waste energy trying to chase a cleaner

The LA can't add VAT onto the cleaner's invoice, they could add VAT if they're charging you something in addition (say an admin charge).

ukbilly

Thanks, Sybarite.
They're not a limited company, that's for sure. Went to visit the address on the invoice and it's just a residential house.
The reason I'm checking up on this is I want to know if any criminal offence has potentially occurred.

On another point, I've noticed posters (clutton in this thread and lynzpower here http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=354936) mentioning that LAs and LLs needing three quotes for jobs. I'm fairly certain that my LA didn't get any alternative quotes so is it as simple as that? If your LA/LL did not get three quotes and pick the cheapest they have no right to deduct from the deposit? I'm sure this would be very valuable information to many people on this forum. Cheers.