Grr. Landlord withholding chunk of deposit unfairly

dreamalittle · 20 January 2007 at 1:05AM

I know there are quite a few other threads on this subject, but I just want some quick advice. I moved out of a rented flat last week and returned the keys to the landlord. He came to have a look at the place while we were clearing up last weekend and didn't say anything negative about the state of the place. We cleaned to the best of our ability and nothing was damaged that wasn't damaged before we moved in.

Today we received a letter from him, enclosing a cheque for £330 less than the deposit we paid. He also enclosed the report from the inventory company and claimed that they advised him to retain £180 for cleaning (which is excessive for a start - it's a tiny one bed flat, and we left it in a clean state), and a further £150 for damage and replacing articles apparently missing. There were admittedly some things we threw away, but that's because they were things like filthy old towels and a melted and useless chopping board, i.e. worthless.

So, obviously we want to dispute this, and I'm waiting for him to return my call before I start the small claims process. What I want to know is, assuming he doesn't cough up the rest immediately, do we now pay in the cheque he's sent, or would that look like we're accepting his offer? Do we go to small claims for the whole of the deposit - £758 - or just for the £330 he withheld? Thanks.

clutton_2 · 20 January 2007 at 1:07AM

why not go to see him and talk to him first ? If you do cash the cheque, take/post a letter which tells him that you have not cashed the cheque in "full and final settlement" and as far as you are concerned the outstanding sum is still in dispute.

Sybarite · 20 January 2007 at 2:31AM

Second Clutton's (as usual excellent and prompt) advise. You need to make sure you have documentary evidence stating that this isn't a full & final settlement but a partial repayment.

Ask for a detailed breakdown of costs, inventory of damage & evidence of any work carried out, ie copies of receipts.

Obviously it depends on how reasonable he is as to your next steps & on the documentary evidence ie the inventory, don't forget that he's only able to charge for replacement items less wear and tear, not the cost of new ones otherwise it's 'betterment'. If you've thrown away filty unusable items on the basis that they were unusable, and he disputed this, you can always offer to replace these yourself and provide approriate charity shop items.

The cleaning may be nothing to do with him and simply be the LA creaming an extra £150 for their own 'cleaners' (wink wink), ask the LL as he was present when you moved out why he didn't mention further cleaning was required & have him point out for you to inspect what exactly has been cleaned 'professionally', so you know whether or not it's in the same state that you left it.

You should challenge everything he states and say 'I disagree' if you do. You can also employ the repeat question method until he runs out of excuses 'Are you going to repay me the money you owe me' kind of thing - you repeat this response until he's so tired of you he's more inclined to settle. Incidentially you're probably a bit pis*ed off & don't want to spend much time in his company - unfortunately the longer you spend drawing out this process (& wasting his time) again the more inclined he will be to back down. Not pleasant but it can work.

Personally, if, say he meets you halfway, I'd be tempted to accept, irritating and unfair as this may be, you just have to consider how much hassle you are prepared to go through for £100-150.

You never know, if he sees you're clued up, he may back down. Good luck.

musey · 20 January 2007 at 9:09AM

My first thought is did you sign an inventory on check in that noted the condition of the flat in detail and listed all the items he is claiming? If not regardless he has no leg to stand on and you should pursue for the full amount he has withheld.

If there was an inventory my next thought would be, how long were you in thproper and has the landlord made sufficient allowance for "fair wear and tear" this is more subjective obviously. Do you have any photos or anything to support your claim that the property was in clean conditon when you left? as they would be helpful should you decide to go the small claims route to reclaim the money

I would cash the cheque you have received but do so having infomred the landlord that you are accepting the cheque a part repayment of the deposit and that you will be pursuing the difference through the usual legal channels if that is what you intend to do.

challengedavid · 20 January 2007 at 9:54AM

not as i am great at advice, but if hes still not paying you i would ask to see recipts for cleaning etc

Sybarite · 20 January 2007 at 11:14AM

Yep you 'disagree' ask for copies of everything. Musey is right regarding paperwork and deposit. You don't want to have to go to small claims if at all possible - in which case you have to look as though you're perfectly aware of your position, where the onus lies to prove this money can be deducted, and that if the balance of your deposit isn't repaid (specify a date for this, but ideally walk away with a cheque there and then) state that you will have to persue the matter further.

Keep it polite and formal - it's easy to become very emotive in this context - but remember this is a business matter.

lynzpower · 20 January 2007 at 2:46PM

My understanding from a court angle is that in order to be able to defend deductions in court, the LL has to have 3 QUOTES not estimates on headed paper from 3 contractors and he has to have taken the cheapest.

In any case if no inventory was done, then he has no case.

Ive just moved into a rented place and the place was left a right sty. In any case Im happy to clean it, I want things done to my exacting standards.
I used a video camera to take video of the state of the place. which is dated and about to be moved to the hard drive once the PC has been moved, and we will email it to the letting agent later if we need to.

Sybarite · 20 January 2007 at 3:28PM

lynzpower's camcorder solution may initially seem OTT, but I totally agree, given the insanity of some LAs and their deft attempts to steal their tenants' deposit (it is theft after all).

I'll be videoing every surface when I move, both on arrival & departure. A pain true, but then so is finding you're short of several hundred £s when the deposit is eventually returned.

I would never have considered that some LA are prepared to be so underhand until recently - unfortunately assuming that they are going to behave in an honest and decent fashion, is an assumption you can't afford to take.

My old neighbour, in residence for 6 months only, had their entire deposit (2k) withheld for 3 months with NO REASON given for this retention. They had the flat professionally cleaned at a cost of £300 before departing. It was only returned despite numerous requests and promises of it being 'in the post' when they gave an ultimatum of ARLA, small claims court and ultimately turning up at the LAs office and not leaving again until a cheque was in their hand. This is a large and supposedly reputable domestic and commercial LA btw.

ukbilly · 21 January 2007 at 4:30PM

I would be careful of depositing the cheque if it came with any letter statement that it represented a full and final settlement or anything to that effect. If not I agree with clutton and Sybarite. Put in writing that for now you accept it only in partial settlement and then you can deposit the cheque.

If you ever get to a county court the claim would then be for the outstanding amount + interest.

Be sure to request invoices for work done and check out the companies that carried the work out.

prudryden · 21 January 2007 at 5:35PM

lynzpower wrote:

My understanding from a court angle is that in order to be able to defend deductions in court, the LL has to have 3 QUOTES not estimates on headed paper from 3 contractors and he has to have taken the cheapest.

In any case if no inventory was done, then he has no case.

Ive just moved into a rented place and the place was left a right sty. In any case Im happy to clean it, I want things done to my exacting standards.
I used a video camera to take video of the state of the place. which is dated and about to be moved to the hard drive once the PC has been moved, and we will email it to the letting agent later if we need to.

Where did you find out about having to get three quotes for e.g. steamcleaning, shampooing of carpets etc. in order to deduct from deposits for the cost of doing that?

dreamalittle · 22 January 2007 at 1:03PM

Thanks very much for all the good advice guys. I've calmed down a bit now, and I've just written a letter setting out why we dispute the amount deducted, and proposing a settlement figure to cover a portion of his spurious costs, with the balance to be returned to us within the next 7 working days.

Unfortunately, there was an inventory done, but I stupidly didn't query the shallowness and inaccuracy of the one done at the start, and have been stung by the specificity of the one done at the end. Still, the costs claimed don't bear any relation to the scale of the issues picked up by the report and I very much doubt he would be able to prove losses anywhere near what he is saying. He's basically picked figures out of the air.

I think I've made it pretty clear in the letter that I know what I'm talking about, and that I'm willing to take it further if he doesn't want to accept our offer, so I'm hoping he'll just back down at that. Fingers crossed!

Grr. Landlord withholding chunk of deposit unfairly

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