Owed money

debsue

Hi
Not sure if this is the right place to post but hoping for the usual sound advice I have had fron this site over the years.

My daughter and her bf finished uni last year and moved home. They had lived together at uni and wanted to continue to do so afterwards. I was asked to loan them the money for a deposit on a rental house which I did. All in all over the year they ended up owing me over £1800 for one thing or another.

At the beginning of this year there was a problem with their property and they had to move out, so they went to live with the BF's grandparents whom he had lived with for many years prior to going to uni. I asked for the deposit money back and was given excuse after excuse until in the end dd came clean and said that they had used it to pay bills but they would give me the deposit money back as the bf was due a tax rebate.

Four weeks ago they had a falling out and my dd came back to live with me although the relationship continued, she said that his grandmother was causing a lot of stress by interfearing. Throughout this time I have been told that I would get my money back when the tax rebate came through.

Last weekend the bf dumped my dd by text message after 5 years together, she is distraught and I am very angry.

I wrote to him and was very matter of fact giving him a breakdown of the money owed, dividing it into 2 and saying that I wanted his half of the money owed by 1/9/2011. It has now come to light that the deposiit refund was used by him to buy his car.

So the question is, what is your advice? Is the use of the money to buy his car theft? Can I take him to small claims?

I look forward to your replies
Deb

Hintza

I doubt you have a case.

Do you have a loan agreement? Who did you give the money to? Are you also pursuing your daughter?

I suspect you gave the money to your daughter. Sounds like you are annoyed at your daughter's predicament and hurt.

Put it down to experience and move on. You will not get anywhere with this.

paddyrg

Hintza is probably right - there is a sticky thread in the loans board about lending to friends and family, and this is the result time and time again.

Write it off, and give your daughter support when she is feeling low after the breakup would be easiest. But there is no harm asking him if he will man up and pay the £900 - ask once, politely and firmly if he intends to do so (appealing to his honour). If he has no intention of paying you back, the cash is gone. If he says he will, but can't afford to (which is probably true) the money is still probably gone, but you might be able to work out something where you see a bit of it back. You have no lein over the car, it is impossible to apportion 'this money paid for that' as it is fungible - maybe your money paid the bills and his tax refund bought the car?

somethingcorporate

What proof do you have it was a loan?

Googlies_2

debsue wrote: »

So the question is, what is your advice? Is the use of the money to buy his car theft? Can I take him to small claims?

I look forward to your replies
Deb

It seems to me your daughter owes you £1800 and the ex owes your daughter £900.

paddyrg

Googlies wrote: »

It seems to me your daughter owes you £1800 and the ex owes your daughter £900.

Actually this is a good shout - either hold your daughter to the £1800 or not, but how they apportioned finances in their relationship will be their own doings - otherwise you may well get caught up in "well I gave her £135 for clothes" "yes but those clothes were worn by your sister who still hasn't given back xyz" etc. If she wants to take that on, that's fine, it is a natural part of a breakup and grieving, but the Mother-in-law is probably the last person he wants to be dealing with just now!

debsue

He agreed a few months ago that he owed the money and he agreed to pay it back

The loan was agreed between the three of us, although there is nothing in writing. He said at the time of the loan he would pay his part back

bod1467

It was agreed verbally, but your problem would be to prove this - otherwise you've got a he said/she said situation. All you can do is hope that he'll honour the agreement, otherwise just chalk it up to experience.

bris

Verbal contracts are just as legal, the trick is to prove it. I think you would have a very good chance in a small claims court. The problem is because you lent the money to them both you would have to sue them both for the full amount and not just him for half.
It would be reasonable for a judge to agree that lending for a deposit should be returned at the end of the tenancy, it's a valid reason for a loan. The daughter would also help by agreeing that it was a loan. After the judgement you can then go on to recover the money from both or who ever can pay as they are both liable for the full amount.

somethingcorporate

bris wrote: »

Verbal contracts are just as legal, the trick is to prove it. I think you would have a very good chance in a small claims court. The problem is because you lent the money to them both you would have to sue them both for the full amount and not just him for half.
It would be reasonable for a judge to agree that lending for a deposit should be returned at the end of the tenancy, it's a valid reason for a loan. The daughter would also help by agreeing that it was a loan. After the judgement you can then go on to recover the money from both or who ever can pay as they are both liable for the full amount.

You're applying terms that are not there. How can it be joint and several if they have not signed a contract saying it is so?

I think the chances of getting your money back (unless your daughter agrees in a court it was a loan) is very slim. A judge will take the line that unless there is evidence to the contrary that the loan was a social arrangement (i.e. a gift).

Good luck, lending money to friends and family is always a massive risk.

arcon5

I don't agree with the above. If it goes to court I don't think it would take a judge long to determine is WAS a loan if your daughter also confirms this. Just because you don't have concrete evidence doesn't mean you should dismiss it.

BUT Googlies makes a very good point. Did you lend the money to your daughter or to them collectively?

Your best bet would be to write to him (keep it polite and factual as before) and ask for him to make a proposal to repay the money and stick to that. Otherwise things get complicated.