General discussion for (Tottenham) riots

StevieJ

Interesting that modern technology that is blamed for the riots will be responsible for most of the arrests, classic example is the guy who fired Selfridges.

ffacoffipawb

StevieJ wrote: »

Interesting that modern technology that is blamed for the riots will be responsible for most of the arrests, classic example is the guy who fired Selfridges.

It was Miss Selfridge, and as he is 18 years old I hope he spends 10 years as someone's biitch for being an arsonist.

Generali

A very sensible and measured piece in the Grauniad from the President of ACPO:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/10/water-cannons-baton-rounds-hugh-orde?intcmp=239

StevieJ

Kennyboy66 wrote: »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/10/liverpool-riots-mob-mayhem

This article is the best I've seen by far.

In summary - "mind blowing buzz of mob mayhem".

Reminds me of football violence in the old days, modified policing, tough sentences and more up to date facilities did help control the problem, although there is still a problem at smaller clubs.
60 rioters have so far been processed through the courts, many with jail sentences (the court sat until 3am this morning).

http://www.gmp.police.uk/mainsite/pages/045946FB16DFC063802578E90029A742

adouglasmhor

ffacoffipawb wrote: »

It was Miss Selfridge, and as he is 18 years old I hope he spends 10 years as someone's biitch for being an arsonist.

I really despise people who think rape is part of a punishment. You need help mate.

StevieJ

adouglasmhor wrote: »

I really despise people who think rape is part of a punishment. You need help mate.

True, I hadn't read the post properly.

dtsazza

There's been some talk of cutting off their benefits as a punishment.

While this may sound controversial, I do wonder whether dropping all benefits altogether wouldn't make things work better in general.

The way that personal economics and, well, life work in general is that you produce something that you're relatively good at producing, and then swap some(/most) of it for things that other people have produced. We have "money" as a middleman but it's effectively a deferred barter system.

Given that, does it really make any sense that people who create nothing get given things from other people? One could certainly argue that a lot of the problems boil down to a lack of responsibility - those who were interviewed and who expressed an opinion on why they weren't playing "by the book" mentioned that they could get what they needed on benefits, and so saw no reason to become productive members of society.

Why do we want to let people share in the fruits of society, without them doing their part to produce fruit for the rest of us? Would telling them that they have to pull their finger out result in them integrating due to having to follow the same social norms as the rest of us?

(And I realise that there are some people with a good attitude that don't produce anything at present - essentially those who are critically ill. If they've exhausted their rainy day savings this still falls into the same category of giving them something for nothing, i.e. charity, which is not necessarily a bad thing. But I don't think that nationalised charity, carried out by the bureaucracy is a good idea; a local worker's union, or their family, or similar groups would be in a much more realistic position to treat those people as they deserve to be treated, give them what they need and what they deserve. Replacing love and genuine care with cash handouts seems cold, ineffective and wasteful.)

StevieJ

Wild scenes in Whalley Range Manchester :eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJuYdotKv3c&NR=1

Graham_Devon

Really interesting debate on Sky News about the riots at the moment.

Got left wing, got right wing, and the police all debating. Will try and sum up if I can in a bit.

One things they all seem to agree on is the sentencing is failing big time. People are walking out giving abuse to cameras after having been given a two day sentence which has already been served, as they have been held that long. It's proving the rioters who said "no one will do anything" completely right.

I do note the lack of policitions and courts in the debate.

Edit: Live debate can be found here, including video: http://news.sky.com/home/topic-pages/uk-riots/live-debate

StevieJ

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Really interesting debate on Sky News about the riots at the moment.

Got left wing, got right wing, and the police all debating. Will try and sum up if I can in a bit.

One things they all seem to agree on is the sentencing is failing big time. People are walking out giving abuse to cameras after having been given a two day sentence which has already been served, as they have been held that long. It's proving the rioters who said "no one will do anything" completely right.

I do note the lack of policitions and courts in the debate.

I saw a guy who had been arrested for wearing garden gloves and a balaclava who had been referred to crown court presumably for a sentence over 6 months, good job it isn't winter :eek: When I was a kid I told my mummy it wasn't fair that I had to wear one of those

Last up before lunch was James Haung, 19, arrested on Tuesday night in Camberwell wearing a balaclava and gardening gloves.
He denied a charge of going equipped to steal, having told police he was "just looking for a thrill".
He too, was remanded in custody, to appear at crown court at a later date.