not great tenants.. who's responsible?

Solstice_Twilight

In all honesty in my time as a tenant at various properties between leaving home and buying my house, I would have expected any damage to come out of my deposit - which is always what happened. I was even charged £250 (the entire deposit) for one house because I had chinchillas, which I had checked and had LL's approval of before moving in. Before I moved out, I hoovered carefully AND borrowed a carpet washer from a friend to make sure the letting agency had no reason to keep my deposit. After we moved, I recieved a letter from LA to say that they'd had to have the carpets professionally cleaned due to me keeping animals there. Nothing was stated about this in my tenancy agreement, but when I phoned to query it, they first asked if I could prove hire of the carpet washer (I couldn't as it was borrowed and not hired), then went on to say that there was "rodent faeces all over the carpet". They couldn't back this up, of course, but I couldn't prove that it wasn't left that way, and every property I rented after that, we took detailed photographs of every room on the day we moved in and on the day we moved out. I even replaced the flimsy kitchen door with a nicer one from B&Q after my then-boyfriend knocked a hole in it moving my new bedframe into the house.

However, I'm getting off the point! Basically, if there was any damage to the property that wasn't a direct result of the LL's/LA's negligence to repair something, especially if I hadn't followed common sense about security, I would always expect to lose the costs of repair from my deposit. Your tenant should have locked the door correctly (my own property insurance clearly states that a 5-lever mortice MUST be used, so I had to get one fitted when I moved in here as it only had a Yale). You've been very reasonable to suggest to split the cost, and really I think this is going to have to be one of those tough life-lessons for your tenant. When we're young, it's natural for our parents to try to protect us from the "real world" and real responsibility, but eventually we have to tough up and take life on the chin.

jamie11

I can't say I have much sympathy for her. We all have to have good property insurance as landlords. There is no excuse for tenants not to insure their own belongings, it cost's next to nothing.

I've also found that most landlords property insurance will cover a certain amount of the landlord's contents (mine covers up to 5000 quids) so check your policy again.

I agree with everybody else, make the deductions from her deposit.

dippy

dippy, guys, I agree with the general gist of things that the damage should be shared.

However, all the facts should be looked at:

What if T had not locked door at all: 100% T's fault
What if T refused to lock mortice lock: 50% T's fault?
T had a key that didn't work (whichever way got bent, it couldn't have been intentional) but didn't notify landlord: 25% T's fault?

missile

She may be stupid / negligent / blonde but IMHO it is always the LL who is expected to pay. If you can get her to pay some of the cost, great!

USM

dippy wrote: »

dippy, guys, I agree with the general gist of things that the damage should be shared.

However, all the facts should be looked at:

What if T had not locked door at all: 100% T's fault
What if T refused to lock mortice lock: 50% T's fault?
T had a key that didn't work (whichever way got bent, it couldn't have been intentional) but didn't notify landlord: 25% T's fault?

This is insane! How does the T's failure to use the mortice lock suddenly make it 50% the landlord's fault? And the bending of the key and failure to report it a further 25% on the landlord?

theartfullodger

!!!!!!...

Look, sometimes you find in business that you make a loss. Sometimes the terms of your insurance policies are such that they don't pay out..(yes, shock-horror, they've been writing those terms like that on purpose), Sometimes tenants aren't perfect and/or don't do what you'd like them to, Sometimes sh*t happens..

Have you done the landlordaccreditationscotland courses>>?? You are registered ?? (Fine for not registering just went up to £50k, can be criminal conviction..). You can show/prove you served AT5 prior to signature of SaT??

Having said that, being Scotland the Landlord is in a very strong position to withhold deposit on shaky grounds and hope tenant doesn't sue in sheriff court small claims - Form 1B -for return of deposit. But as all MSE posters are honourable & honest that won't happen here eh??

And of course tenant has option (unlike in Engerland..) of taking you to PRHP to sort out a dispute you can't amicably resolve.. see,...
http://www.prhpscotland.gov.uk/prhp/1.html
.. and Tenant obviously knows that already as the LL MUST advise T of this info at start of tenancy..

Thankfully Scottish Govt is bringing in deposit protection soon..

Cheers!

Artful (Scottish LL for 10+ years..)

KateLiana27

I agree with G_M. If it was in written into the tenancy agreement that she must use the 5 lever mortice deadlock, and there is evidence that she did not, the events are a result of her actions and she should be expected to pay.

If she was just verbally told (albeit several times), you're on less secure ground as the difficulty is proving that she was told; though still worth a try. Take it as a lesson learned and make sure you include it in written form for all future tenants, as well as locking windows and patio doors when the house is unattended, using alarms if there is one, etc. Common sense is unfortunately not that common - never make assumptions about your tenant's IQ.

sunster

Hi everyone, thanks for all your comments so far - they make for good reading and have been more helpful than you could imagine - seriously. Factually speaking, yes, I am a registered landlord, no, I don't do this for a living (it's a property I was just lucky enough to hang on to). Yes, I have a signed tenancy agreement via my letting agent.

The tenancy agreement is lengthy but typically vague in that it doesn't explicitly say anything directly about security. It does however stipulate several times on the tenants duty of care and the consideration of acting as a good tenant. Although I have spoken to her on several occasions on the need to lock the door properly I do not have this in writing (well, actually I do in so much as I had a check list we went through at the beginning of her tenancy that she signed... unfortunately all it says is 'windows and door' with a tick next to it, so nothing that will stand up to any scrutiny) - the statement that she gave to the police states that the door wasn't locked by the mortice because the key she had didn't work. If anyone would like to know the precise wording I'd be happy to share, just ask. My insurance for the property clearly states however that the door should have a 5-lever mortice lock at point of entry.

As for the key that didn't work... this is opinion, and nothing more... when I asked for it back, one of the spokes had been bent in (they're pretty tough keys!). It's not the kind of thing that could have been done whilst being in pockets etc. I get the impression that it was done by force and was done intentionally... when I mentioned this to her, her response was simply 'that's why it didn't work then'... but let's stick to the facts as I cannot prove any of this - though she has had a full 10 months to tell me of a faulty key and of course has not done anything of the sort.

I've made a decision which weighs up everything, but most importantly for me, my gut feeling. Most people on here have taken a slightly harder view than I am taking (based on facts as I have presented them, naturally - you'd get different opinions if she was posting on here).

The inventory will be conducted before she gets her deposit back. I need to contact the inventory company to say that the TV is missing because of theft (I will do this via my letting agent so I am seen to be 100% divorced from the inventory company's findings). I am going to deduct HALF the price of the door repair and the full cost of the replacement key which amounts to a not very staggering £60 or so. I'm doing this as a measure that sits in between my belief that she has been neglectful in her duties as a tenant and then to counter this an element of compassion that we are human and make mistakes.

Even as I write this I, wavering on being more heavy with her down to the threatening posture she took during out last conversation, but let's just say that's how I sit with this right now.

Cheers people - do appreciate this a great deal!

mchale

Sorry but as a LL I have to disagree, had the tenant used the mortice lock the damage to the door & frame would have cost a lot more to repair, would you then have been happy to pay for the repairs and not charge the tenant, also if you were so worried about security on the property by telling the tenant to lock the mortice did you fit a burglar alarm?

The tenant in a way presumed the property was secure because the flat block door was key controlled, the tenant did not ask to be burgled so with hindsight would most probably lock all locks on the property in future. Being a LL means taking the good with the bad, in this insistence it may be legally correct to charge the tenant with the repairs but I would say morally its far from right.

sunster

Okay mchale - I'm slightly confused by the reasoning here.

Are you saying that just because more damage would have been done if a break in was successful I should count myself lucky that less was done because one lock was not locked? But then you go on to say about having a burglar alarm installed which is, like the addition of a mortice lock, an additional security measure. I have at no point said that my tenant was involved in the break-in. My view however is that she was negligent - this is a (hopefully) legal standpoint and I would say morally right too - morally, if I was staying in someone's property I would make sure I locked it by all means at my disposal when I went out. Wouldn't you?

Just because you may believe that people are generally decent, doesn't mean that you leave you car unlocked when you do your shopping does it?