Urgently need help with a mobile phone company misbilling issue

MrAli_87

Hi, I need serious legal advice from somebody with some knowledge in the field or perhaps someone who has faced the exact same situation.

My dad has been billed twice for the same phone bill for the last 4 years. What we have discovered has happened is that when he changed from a PAYG phone to contract in Carphone Warehouse they set up a new account for him. This account was a contract account and he paid month bills on avg £22 a month. They stupidly instead of cancelling his PAYG changed it also to a pay monthly contract on the same number. (I think this is what has happened, the jist is it is CW fault)

My dad is on the orange network and over the last 4 years they have received over £1000 for no service. My dad has been billed the exact same monthly amount twice a month for 4 years. Admittedly it is poor it took him so long to notice but in his defence, he doesn't do online banking. Only checking paper statements, it isn't immediately obvious as each month 2 different amounts showed with the matching amount for each falling on the previous or next month. Being double billed is understandable when it is different months as you could assume it is just the way the billing fell, i.e 2 one month means none the next.

Contacting orange several times got us nowhere, today I finally managed to get someone who understood what was going on and it is to be passed up to operations level and we will hear from them tomorrow. They argue that as the mistake was not made by them it is highly unlikely all the money will be returned.

My argument is they have £1000+ that they have not earnt, they provided zero service for it, they have received through a mistake that was not ours and undeserving of this money they should not miss it when they give it back!

Financially attempting to fob us off with compensation is dumb because my father, myself, my girlfriend and sister would not want to deal with the company again, leave and they lose out in the long run.

Basically I need to know what legal rights we have. Should we decline compensation? Do we have a strong case for full repayment? Is there precedent for have decent good will gestures when threatened at lost of future custom? Has this happened before?

Please help, thanks in advance

MissKeith

Hang on, Carphone can't physically change a PAYG phone to contract. They can only sell a brand new contract and help the customer port the PAYG number over. Something has seriously gone wrong here. When your dad took out the contract, did he take a new number or call Orange to transfer over his old number?

Transformer

If we are talking the same phone number then orange have to pay up or you can take them to either cicas and or court to ask for the money back.

If separate numbers are involved you could see them arguing but hope they would see sense and help return some if not all money to him, but if indeed same number orange are negligent for not noticing and I agree something serious went wrong. Carphone warehouse might be able to provide proof of their contact with orange that will back up the same number is involved to show it is not your fault as as long as car phone did port your number with them and the new contract, then it is likely they did cancel the payg for you and again proof or orange miss handling.

olaf.swantee@orange.co.uk (hes the new ceo)

Techhead_2

The questions that need answering are:
Whose mistake was it?
Who has responsibility for the mistake?
What was done to minimise the mistake?

From what you say it is CPW who made the mistake.

The answers to the other two questions are less clear.

There are few circumstances where Orange would be able to spot this as something unusual. People take out contracts (and never use the airtime) all the time. in order to get a new handset and the bill was happily paid for four years. On the other hand it would be unusual to not contact a customer in four years.

From your point of view there is a duty to minimise the effects of any mistake and not properly checking bills and statements means that hasn't happened.

If it was me I would be pursuing Carphone Warehouse, but if this was in-store there may be signed paperwork. This would make it very difficult for you to pursue.
I think you need proper professional advice, be honest with them and search out all paperwork.

gjchester

MrAli_87 wrote: »

Hi, I need serious legal advice from somebody with some knowledge in the field or perhaps someone who has faced the exact same situation.

If you want "serious" legal advice see a solicitor, with the best will in the world although we all know a lot we can't give a fully qualified legal answer.


You may get a few months back, but it's extremly unlikely you'll get more than that, as has been said no-one has noticed or checked for four years so it could be said that it was accepted as correct.

MrAli_87

Thank you all for the feedback. I will add a bit more info to better explain things.

My dad ended up with 2 separate orange accounts, 2 different account numbers. While being different account numbers, it can't be argued one was not being used -month by month their were identical (to the penny) amounts coming out of his bank account. if one was not being used then you would have one account as his actual bill and the other one just the set monthly payment repeating each month. Duplicate accounts, same number.

My dad's negligence with checking his bills is annoying, but in one given month there is never a duplicate amount. You would need to string two bank statements together to notice the duplicate. i.e bills came out on the 6th from one account and 23rd from the other for example with his bank statement coming at the end of each month.

While I have no idea exactly what CPW did when they changed over the contract, that mistake is not really what I am chasing up. I am not looking compensation for their mistake. I am simply looking for orange to give back money that they should not have. They can admit there was a mistake made, they can see my dad has got no service for all this extra money he has given them, it is beyond me how they belief they have any right to keep this money.

Also, I do recognise that this is not professional advice I am just gathering knowledge and experiences and opinion. We may well need to seek proper legal help but I want to know at what point in the process we do this, all other methods would be preferred. It is great to learn about what organisations I need to contact and speak to if Orange don't pay up.

Again, big thanks for all the help and advice.

MissKeith

Right, I cannot see how Carphone are at fault with this one as they simply do not have the ability to do what Orange have told you they have done. I would personally get in touch with Carphone to confirm only one connection was sent to them on that number just to prove to Orange that liability is theirs entirely. They can't use a mistake by a 3rd part as justification for not refunding you.

Transformer

MissKeith wrote: »

Right, I cannot see how Carphone are at fault with this one as they simply do not have the ability to do what Orange have told you they have done. I would personally get in touch with Carphone to confirm only one connection was sent to them on that number just to prove to Orange that liability is theirs entirely. They can't use a mistake by a 3rd part as justification for not refunding you.

As you have said you work for orange and I find your post very helpful and positive for issue here, can I ask you to use your knowledge on other posts as well if you have the time, because it all helps. I said a while ago a lot of threads appear about orange, most sites do not have valid input from the companies like some mobile providers do and orange do tend to offend easy at high level when orange itself has caused the fault, I suppose a sort of damage limitation.

So I think if you are up to it and when can you could be a great help:T

If you have posted before on similar issues forgive me for not noticing prior, but take the praise anyhow, its well meant.

MissKeith

Apologies, I do not work for Orange. I used to work for Carphone though! Sorry about that!

MrAli_87

What I have said in my initial post as to what CPW have done is probably wrong. I don't understand what they have done. When I rang Orange yesterday he could look at the accounts and recognise it was CPW fault at the art up of the new contract.

Whatever happened the end result was one contract account with a duplicate account charging the same amount every month. That leads me to think you have two accounts on the one number.

If this were you and Orange come back offering say half the money as compensation instead of all the money back what would you do? I want to reject and take the matter further. What is the next step forward and am I right to do so.

A further note to mention is that in one of our first calls to them about the issue (it has taken 2 months of phone calls and a letter waiting to hear back before we have reached this stage) they did offer us compensation. Something like £130. This proves they know they are in some way at fault and also shows they tried to fob us off with a small amount because based on yesterdays call that said this needs upped to operations level they had no power to try and fix this issue.

Naf

How does your dad receive/check is Orange phone bills? Does he get anything through the post to tell him how much this month's payment is?
Does he usually use more than his inclusive minutes? Because of not then it doesn't have to be two accounts, one number; could be two accounts entirely.
You should probably contact CPW and ask for all the details they hold: they'll probably want a Subject Access Request (SAR) with a £10 fee.You could do the same with Orange. Basically this'll get you any contract paperwork signed at CPW so you'll be able to tell if two were set up; and it'll get you copies of all the past bills charged to your dad so you can see what account numbers and mobile numbers these were charged for.