Comparison site headache

Premier_2

bengasman wrote: »

Not exactly the REAL LIFE example I asked for, is it? More like total fantasy.

Show me an example of a real, verifiable tariff where an average gas or leccie user was decidedly worse of with a bill based on the lowest kWh price, then we'll talk again.

I have done, See post #8

As for a average user, I doubt you have asked one either - it's unlikley an average user actually exists. This site caters for all. As I, and others, said, consult a comparison site.

You were advised in the other thread, and you have been advised in this thread by others, that your suggestion is very misleading. No one has supported your stance. Please consider carefully before posting such advice in future.

backfoot

bengasman wrote: »

Experienced in what?
Knowledgeable about what?

Comparison site results. I think Premier in particular will explain or disprove any claims that they produce incorrect results and has done consistently for a long time.

Personally, I always wonder about any source that discourages people from comparing their own calculations and never quite trusted the "don't worry your little head" style preachers.

The posters have explained the logic clearly. If you can't see it,then that's your failing not theirs.

The Comparison sites hold all the unit rates you have talked about plus any other data which affects the annual charges. To look at the unit rate alone is fundamentally flawed as it is produces an incomplete analysis.

Comparison sites make the task extremely easy,time efficient and reliable.

To go on arguing the point, is just making you look very foolish and will quickly discredit your own contributions.

Plushchris

bengasman wrote: »

Experienced in what?
Knowledgeable about what?

Personally, I always wonder about any source that discourages people from comparing their own calculations and never quite trusted the "don't worry your little head" style preachers.

Personally I worry about people doing their own calculations, I've seen many many posts on here saying "My spreadsheet gives different results to the comparison therefore the comparison site must be wrong"

The comparison sites are regulated and checked by consumer focus to make sure they are accurate.

People doing their own calculations and spreadsheets however have no such checks and regulations. Yet they never admit they are wrong or havent worked things out correctly. (and that is usually the case)

You have been given two "real life" examples, one by premier and one by myself (I cant remember the name of the tariff I was on with E-on but it carried a 28% discount for online and duel fuel discounts)

Plushchris

It should be noted that I actually agree with your sentiments Bengasman, I really do!

It SHOULD be that simple as to just compare unit rates!

Its not though

bengasman

backfoot wrote: »

....To go on arguing the point, is just making you look very foolish and will quickly discredit your own contributions.

I see; to disagree with you = being thick and incredible.

Can't say I find that a very convincing argument, it sounds more like: " Look, I told you not to worry your little head about it, what part of shut up don't you understand?"

Even more so, as you can't provide an example of what I asked for either: a real life, verifiable example where the lowest kWh rate was significantly more expensive over the year than a complicated discount structure for an average single meter user.

I'll make it easy for you.

Retrospective is fine.
Anywhere in England.
Any supplier that takes all customers.
Any time in the past decade.

Surely, that should be kids' play for such knowledgeable and experienced posters.
Forgive me if I don't hold my breath.

Premier_2

bengasman wrote: »

I see; to disagree with you = being thick and incredible.

No. it the fact you seem to diagree with everyone. You are alone in your views.

bengasman wrote: »

Can't say I find that a very convincing argument, it sounds more like: " Look, I told you not to worry your little head about it, what part of shut up don't you understand?"

Even more so, as you can't provide an example of what I asked for either: a real life, verifiable example where the lowest kWh rate was significantly more expensive over the year than a complicated discount structure for an average single meter user.

I'll make it easy for you.

Retrospective is fine.
Anywhere in England.
Any supplier that takes all customers.
Any time in the past decade.

Surely, that should be kids' play for such knowledgeable and experienced posters.
Forgive me if I don't hold my breath.

Ok, just one example from the comparison sites.

A gas user consuming the average of 16500kWh per year living in the East Midlands supply area.

npower go save tariff, tier 2 price (because tier 1 just adds the standing charges) 2.644p/kWh
Annual cost = £602

eon Age UK Online tariff, tier 2 price more expensive @ 3.248p/kWh
but annual price cheaper at £578

bengasman

Plushchris wrote: »

You have been given two "real life" examples, one by premier and one by myself
(I cant remember the name of the tariff I was on with E-on

Not exactly verifiable then, is it? No company, no actual figures in terms of pounds paid or pounds saved by not paying the other option; only percentages.

Plushchris wrote: »

but it carried a 28% discount for online and duel fuel discounts)

That is comparing apples with pears; dual fuel discount leaves out millions of people without gas, and makes kWh price comparison complicated because companies can use dominance in an area for one energy to "subsidise" the other one. On top of that, you don't give the numbers. 28% discount means nothing without the base figures.
A typical example was the fantastic rate LEB offered for gas users.

But more to the point: neither "example" included annual bills including annual kWh used, nor the area, nor the time.

bengasman

Premier wrote: »

Ok, just one example from the comparison sites.

A gas user consuming the average of 16500kWh per year living in the East Midlands supply area.

npower go save tariff, tier 2 price (because tier 1 just adds the standing charges) 2.644p/kWh
Annual cost = £602

eon Age UK Online tariff, tier 2 price more expensive @ 3.248p/kWh
but annual price cheaper at £578

That's better.
All that's missing now is the postcode ( first half will do ) and the year.
It's still not a REAL LIFE example though, is it, but a hypothetical Mr Bloggs.

Plushchris

bengasman wrote: »

dual fuel discount leaves out millions of people without gas, and makes kWh price comparison complicated because companies can use dominance in an area for one energy to "subsidise" the other one.

Oh really, how come you were saying that its the Kwh price is the most important thing then?

You cant have it one way and not the other..

bengasman

Plushchris wrote: »

Oh really, how come you were saying that its the Kwh price is the most important thing then?
.

You are not comparing one bill with another bill, but one SUBSIDISED bill plus an artificially supported bill against TWO other bills.
Apart from issues such as direct debits being changed without the owners knowledge by including the notice in a bunch of bumf, it makes it rather complicated.

Still, a REAL bill, paid by a REAL customer over a certain year can still be compared as long as the post code is included and the the timespan accurately stated. Lot of hassle though.