I want a vegetable garden, where do I start

Alfietinker

Have you considered raised beds? Having grown veggies 'traditionally' and in raised beds I definitely prefer the raised beds.

Basically you only dig over the ground once, very thouroughly and then just add compost/manure etc each year. As you are never treading on the soil it doesn't get compacted and hence doesn't lose it's structure.

It is a bit more work initially in my opinion is a lot easier in the long run. I also find it looks neater.

The other advantages are you can grow veg closer together as you don't have to leave space to walk on and crop rotation is easier to remember.

Oh and don't forget you can grow fruit in your ornamental garden. A couple of redcurrants/black currants can be treated like shrubs and give you even more variety.

Hope this doesn't sound like I'm telling you to suck eggs.

Gillby1

This is really interesting, Happy Bunny!

Alfietinker (or anyone!) - roughly how deep does the compost in a raised bed need to be to allow for growing veg? Presumably the roots grow deep down through the compost and into the soil, they won't get as many nutrients?

Thanks!

Happy_Bunny_6

Thank you very much for all the help and advice.

I've got plenty of spare wood lying around which I could use to make the beds raised a little,

It would help to stop the dogs and chickens walking on them and digging things up.

How high would they have to be?

Also, I've just discovered the delights of butternut squash and am ashamed to admit I don't even know if they grow in this country!!

I would love to grow those.

Alfietinker

Happy Bunny and Gilby 1 Sorry for not replying earlier.

The idea of raised beds is to never walk on them so don't make them more than about 4 feet wide or you won't be able to easily reach the middle.
I don't think the height is particularly crucial but you need to allow space to add more organic matter and to plant, fork, trowel etc without it spilling over the sides.

We made ours out of 4 inch planks screwed to posts at each corner. You might want to add a reinforcing post in the middle if your's are particularly long. This year though we are going to add another 4 inch plank on top as I found I kept spilling the soil onto the ground.

Another thing we're doing which we hope will work is to extend the corner posts to stick up a couple of feet so I can easily stretch net and fleece over crops - a bit like the tunnels you can buy but a lot cheaper.

Gilby1 You need to dig over the ground very thouroughly below the raised beds too to allow drainage and for roots to go down, (but they won't go down very far). You can't just dump a load of compost on top of un dug ground though. If you can 'double-dig' the ground before you construct the beds it would be brilliant.

And Happy Bunny You can grow butternut squash with no problems but you may want to consider your priorities in terms of space. They are a bit like growing pumpkins and can take up a fair bit of space, as well as being in the ground from May until the Autumn. There's nothing wrong with that but you may prefer to have 'shorter' crops that you can sow and pick regularly with higher yields - like courgettes, cucumbers, tomatoes, salads, carrots, beans, peas etc. It's all personal preference.

Also it might be worth seeing if you can get hold of a mini greenhouse or making a cold frame to start your seeds off in. 'Hotter' crops like butternut don't like their growth being 'checked' with a cold snap. A cold frame lets you germinate the seeds and keep them protected until it's safe to plant them outside. You can also start most seeds off earlier this way and grow them on until you have small plants to set out in the beds rather than sowing direct in the ground and having to thin out etc.

Anyway, hope that helps a bit. I do find I can ramble on about these things so sorry!

thriftlady_2

Happy_Bunny wrote:

Also, I've just discovered the delights of butternut squash and am ashamed to admit I don't even know if they grow in this country!!

I would love to grow those.

Yes you can grow butternut squash and many other kinds of squash here

Anyone know about veg in a shady garden ?

Alfietinker

thriftlady wrote:

Anyone know about veg in a shady garden ?

It all depends on the veg and how much shade you mean. Most veg prefer full sun but you can usually get away with some shade if they get sun the rest of the day.

It your garden is very shady then how about climbing beans which due to their height are likely to catch more sun?

Or crops like true spinach which bolt easily in hot dry spells may well appreciate a little shade during the hottest part of the day.

Gingham_Ribbon

Our yard is mostly shady. It's north facing and very small. It is walled on 3 sides with a fairly high fence on the fourth. But we successfully grew peppers, courgettes, tomatoes some herbs and lots of pretty flowers to attract the butterflies. It looks a terrible mess at the moment as I've not been able to tend to it for months though.

The courgettes were by FAR the easiest. We were given the plants all ready to be put outside and I put them in large pots (about 16" diameter maybe?) with John innes no2. The courgettes just exploded and we kept finding courgettes we'd missed under massive leaves that had turned into marrows. All I did was water them, but we have some organic feed for next year to help the tomatoes along as the yield wasn't great and some of the herbs didn't do so well. (And the garlic just didn't happen.

So inspired that I put my name on an allotment waiting list a few months ago. Fingers crossed!

WestonDave

Good thread - maybe we should have a MSE gardening thread a bit like the Flylady one!

We moved into our new house in September and one of the plans for the garden was to have a small veg area - its only a garden so we can't expect to go too mad and be self sufficient etc, nor with one toddler in the home and a baby on the way can we commit too much time to it at present.

We've identified an area about 5ft by 15ft to use as a veg plot, and over Christmas I started clearing it but only managed about 3ft by 3ft - mainly due to the massive fuschia bush in the way that needed clearing.

The soil is quite heavy so the raised bed concept is something I'd like to try as any trampling quickly undoes any work to improve the soil structure. We used to live just down the road so know only too well how much work is needed to keep the soil here workable.

My aim for this year is to keep going on the clearing/preparation a bit at a time and consider any actual planting as a bonus! A spring baby will probably curtail all outdoor activity right at the critical time so I think its best to be realistic.

angelavdavis

thriftlady wrote:

I've been toying with the idea of growing veg in my small garden for years. I've grown a bit but always given up.

The thing is I have 4 trees in my garden which is about 30 foot by 40 foot (very roughly speaking as it is triangular). The trees (a quince, a crab apple, and 2 ornamental trees) are between 15-20 ft. I like my trees, they provide shade and interest, so many of our neighbour's gardens are just lawn with a bed round the edge. My question is to those who know 'is it worth growing veg in a small garden with a lot of tree shade ? '

Apologies to Happy Bunny I don't mean to hijack your thread I didn't want to start another thread on a similar topic

I have exactly the same problem and as others have recommended - I have built raised beds - see my link

http://groups.msn.com/AngelasPhotographicEmporium/gardenproject2005.msnw?Page=2

It has been really successful and means you don't have to dig the beds every year as the soil doesn't get as compressed because you don't stand on it. I just turn the soil over and top up the levels with HM compost/manure once a year.

Just a word of warning about unrotted manure - using it near plants may cause you problems - it will actually burn plants because it produces nitrogen as it rots. However, I once got hold of a load and piled it up to use it as a hot bed.

Anyone old enough to remember Geoff Hamilton on Gardener's World, may recall him using a hot bed - basically, the pile produces heat as it rots down. Top the manure with compost and plant into the soil and top the heap off with a coldframe. Because of the heat, you can grow things that would normally require a heated greenhouse.

Here are a couple of links about hotbeds: http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/todo_now/faqs.php?id=162
http://www.holon.se/garden/howto/hotbed_en.shtml

Heligan in Cornwall even use it to grow pineapples - but I think this might a tad ambitious!!

thriftlady_2

Thanks Angela, impressive photos - I'm inspired :T