Debit card fraud using pin

Casa_125

Hello,
Any advice gratefully received. My 21 yr old son used his debit card in a bar in Maspalomas, Gran Canaria whilst on holiday with a group of mates. When he returned home he discovered there were 4 fraudulent transactions which had cleaned his account out.
Three for 100 euros and one for 1,000 euros which put him over £300 overdrawn with Santander (yet he has no overdraft facility with them!).
He completed a disclaimer form and has now heard back to say, as the pin was used in the fraudulent transactions, it is an invalid claim. He said his card was in his possession at all times, he thinks he might have been distracted as the bar was very noisy and busy. He is not a criminal so doesn't think like one, he has no idea how this could have happened.
The bank are saying that 1,400 euros on the same night, at the same overseas retailer, does not count as "AN UNUSUAL PATTERN OF SPENDING". How ridiculous, of course it is. Their anti fraud computer has obviously failed on this occasion. He had not informed Santander he was going abroad as he did not think he would need to use his card, and in fact only used it on that evening before returning home and discovering the fraud. His highest payment out of his bank account for the past year is a regular £230 per month which he pays me and his dad for rent and car loan. So how can they say this is not an unusual pattern of spending? Of course, the gloves are on and the complaint is on its way to them. Thanks for taking the time to read.

jonesMUFCforever

Start a formal complaint.
Were the transactions done at the same place or nearby?
Could someone have shoulder surfed him and stolen his card then put it back in his pocket?
At the end of the day it is up to Santander to prove that you used chip and pin not the other way round.

Casa_125

jonesMUFCforever wrote: »

Start a formal complaint.
Were the transactions done at the same place or nearby?
Could someone have shoulder surfed him and stolen his card then put it back in his pocket?
At the end of the day it is up to Santander to prove that you used chip and pin not the other way round.

Hello, yes they were all at the same bar, on the mini statement they are showing as BAR START, Maspalomas. Not sure if this is the name they trade under or whether that was the actual name of the bar as can't find anything on the internet. He is adamant that no one could have shoulder surfed him but I have said these criminals are so sophisticated it is entirely possible. I did not know Santander had to prove that he used chip and pin so that is invaluable advice - thanks. The complaint is also that they are saying it is not an unusual spending pattern. I think not, agree? Thanks again

McKneff

I feel for him but I have to say, and this is not directed at him in particular but Im horrified at the way people dont take precautions when putting in their pin at ATMs, supermarkets, etc. Its not particularly the staff, the people who are next in the queue can see. I see it all the time. Most people who can see it are honest as the day is long, but you just need one crook behind you and Bobs your uncle.

Casa_125

McKneff wrote: »

I feel for him but I have to say, and this is not directed at him in particular but Im horrified at the way people dont take precautions when putting in their pin at ATMs, supermarkets, etc. Its not particularly the staff, the people who are next in the queue can see. I see it all the time. Most people who can see it are honest as the day is long, but you just need one crook behind you and Bobs your uncle.

Hello, thanks for your reply. He is usually very vigilant with his pin and says he was on this occasion but if someone is determined to sneak a peek and it is a crowded noisy bar it could be possible. He just has no idea at all how it could have happened and just knows it was not him who did the 4 fraudulent transactions.

MoneySaverLog

McKneff wrote: »

I feel for him but I have to say, and this is not directed at him in particular but Im horrified at the way people dont take precautions when putting in their pin at ATMs, supermarkets, etc. Its not particularly the staff, the people who are next in the queue can see. I see it all the time. Most people who can see it are honest as the day is long, but you just need one crook behind you and Bobs your uncle.

I would say I always shield my pin entry at the ATM

Crooks have been known to install skimmers on ATM machines with a camera above the keypad to watch the owner type their pin numbers in.

chambta

The fact that the PIN was used cannot automatically invalidate any claims of fraud.

Casa_125

chambta wrote: »

The fact that the PIN was used cannot automatically invalidate any claims of fraud.

Thank you, yes this is something I have recently learned.
Apparently it is the bank's responsibility to prove that a pin WAS used rather than my son proving that it was not.
We will see what the outcome of the complaint is, I will post the resolution on here once known. Many thanks.:)

Bloomberg

Casa_125 wrote: »

Hello,
Any advice gratefully received. My 21 yr old son used his debit card in a bar in Maspalomas, Gran Canaria whilst on holiday with a group of mates. When he returned home he discovered there were 4 fraudulent transactions which had cleaned his account out.
Three for 100 euros and one for 1,000 euros which put him over £300 overdrawn with Santander (yet he has no overdraft facility with them!).
He completed a disclaimer form and has now heard back to say, as the pin was used in the fraudulent transactions, it is an invalid claim. He said his card was in his possession at all times, he thinks he might have been distracted as the bar was very noisy and busy. He is not a criminal so doesn't think like one, he has no idea how this could have happened.
The bank are saying that 1,400 euros on the same night, at the same overseas retailer, does not count as "AN UNUSUAL PATTERN OF SPENDING". How ridiculous, of course it is. Their anti fraud computer has obviously failed on this occasion. He had not informed Santander he was going abroad as he did not think he would need to use his card, and in fact only used it on that evening before returning home and discovering the fraud. His highest payment out of his bank account for the past year is a regular £230 per month which he pays me and his dad for rent and car loan. So how can they say this is not an unusual pattern of spending? Of course, the gloves are on and the complaint is on its way to them. Thanks for taking the time to read.

I am always extolling the benefits of credit cards and I think that the above story adds weight to what I say. I seldom use my debit card so as to protect myself from fraud. You must fight this all the way, your son did not spend the money so why should he suffer?

Maybe the card was cloned and used it that bar. Once this matter is resolved I would suggest that your boy leaves Santander and opens an account with a proper bank and also gets a credit card. I wish him all the best.

Casa_125

Bloomberg wrote: »

I am always extolling the benefits of credit cards and I think that the above story adds weight to what I say. I seldom use my debit card so as to protect myself from fraud. You must fight this all the way, your son did not spend the money so why should he suffer?

Maybe the card was cloned and used it that bar. Once this matter is resolved I would suggest that your boy leaves Santander and opens an account with a proper bank and also gets a credit card. I wish him all the best.

Thank you very much for your post, totally agree with all you say.
We totally intended to fight this all the way and I hope there is a positive outcome for my son......then off to a proper bank, as you say!

davetrousers

There was a very similar sounding thread to this a couple of years ago, might be worth trawling through the forum to find some help.