School starting age, please advise

bestpud

dktreesea wrote: »

Mmm, I would have felt like that about council estate fed schools. But it's interesting how life turns out. My DD is 15 going on 25. The school has a mixed intake. Edinburgh is like that - well off areas right next to sink hole estates, so a lot of very mixed intake schools.

Her "from the council estate" friends are conservative with a capital C. All of them with part time, usually saturday, jobs as well as still at school full time. Non smoking, non drinking, and not a child in sight. One of them said to me: "My mother had me at 16, I won't be doing that. " But that group of friends have a whole heap of support from the council. Clubs, going on holiday, going to leadership/outreach/goodness knows what courses, the council funds it. Goodness knows where they fit study in, but they all seem to be passing standard grades (GCSEs and highers, and staying on at school. I'm pretty sure the council have spent all our
council tax and our neighbours for good measure, just on where they have taken her this year.

The ones from middle class families are wilder. They have access to more money, so think nothing of spending it on drink and cigarettes. Plus a couple of them are already pregnant, at 16.

Mixed schools may work better.

My experience comes from comparing two primaries and one secondary:

One a sink school with a handful of two parent families (my son was one of two or three, out of 30 kids who had two parents at home and mums frequently spoke of tying up windows and doors to stop their wayward kids escaping) and virtually everyone on benefits or a low income. Few parents supported the school and there was frequently 'effing and blinding' at the school gates - more recently, a parent beat up the HT because he cancelled a school event due to bad behaviour!

This fed into the sink secondary which had worse problems once the little darlings hit their teens! Drinking and smoking are the least of the problems, believe me! I'm talking of entire families intimidating fellow pupils and parents, staff having to video an excluded child as they were at the school every day threatening staff and pupils, children surrounding my car (at the school gates!!!) and threatening to torch my home because we reported a thug for beating up my son on the way home, and many of dd's peers are on their third child now - at 19!! - and a few of those are already in care! I could go on...

I suggest going along during the school day, several times, before
settling for such schools. Never rely on open days/evenings as they get out the best kids for public inspection and the teachers are often very good in the worst schools so will seduce you with their enthusiasm. Trouble is, it counts for little when they have 25 disruptive kids in every class of 30 and parents who don't give a damn as many went to that school themselves and have hated it ever since!!

The other a 'middle class' school with a handful of parents from surrounding council estates. (Dare I say most of the children had behavioural problems and the lack of parental interest stuck out like a
sore thumb.). I hate to say it but it's true!

But, middle class parents bring problems too! More of them struggle to
say no to their children, they expect the school to deal with every tiny issue their little darling has, and some of the children are obnoxious! Overall though, they behave in class, want to do well, the parents support the school and I have never heard a parent swear at a teacher at the school gate!

I know which I'd choose! Well, which I did choose for my youngest child!

balancelife

Soniclord wrote: »

You don't get it do you? It isn't about me, it's about my kids, would you really get TWO children up at 6:30am to take 1 to school for 8:30am, on 2 buses, 1 to town and then 1 out of town to the school, total journey time just to get there being 1 and a half hours!

If you had an alternative I'd bet money you'd take it! So you can stop lecturing me



You're entitled to your opinion, but in life I'm afraid YOU and I will almost certainly come across MANY prejudiced and bigoted people. Not saying I am prejudiced BUT I do have a choice about the type of people who myself and my family CHOOSE to be around. And if you don't like someone or something would you still go and see them or do the thing you disliked? NO you bloody well wouldn't!!



WRONG! I've given my reasons and several people on here agree with me. You sir are just ignorant of the fact I have a choice and have made the best choice (for now) for myself and my children. So with respect DO ONE!



How the hell would she hold back a year one pupil. You pompous fool.

By the way I'm only the way society has made me, I look after myself and my family the best way I see fit. If you don't like that then it's just a little bit tough.

Oh and for the record I have an older brother who never went to nursery, started school at age 5 and has now bene to university and gained a 2:1 degree, the 2nd highest mark you can get! Clearly didn't affect him did it...

You are not the only one taking buses. And well maybe you should have thought of that before moving to such a bad place. I don't zoom about in luxury. I get my two up at 630 to have time to be properly ready to leave. I walk 3 miles to get her to school, then 3 miles home before returning at 1230 to drop my son at preschool,hang around until 330 and collect them both before walking home. And would I have chosen the easiest option of not bothering to send her? Honestly... NO. You can kid yourself that this is about what's best for your child but deep down you know you are very selfishly thinking mainly of your own convenience. I hope that rests easy with you. I genuinely hope it works though as I'm thinking of your poor child.

Indeed I do come across other prejudice people like yourself and no I don't like it and I'd rather not. You blame society for your foul attitude all you like but don't expect to get through unchallenged and have some respect for others. Is hate my child to come into contact with yours if she follows your attitude, that's far worse than simply living on a council estate you idiot!

About holding back a year 1 I meant if she continues to hang around little ones and doesn't learn how to behave (doubt you'll teach her anyway) then she may struggle to settle.

As for your brother. Congratulations. I got a 2.1 too though there are other things in life I'm more proud of. How did you do? But Don't pretend the choices you are making are around academics!!

iamana1ias

Soniclord wrote: »

But that's not what you said, you said Bawtry, YOU were specific. Therefore your argument is null and void!

Clearly in Bawtry you also only saw what you wanted to see. And your opinion was it's a sh1thole! Which it's not.

Yeah, okay. Whatever.

I said: "My father is from Bawtry. Spent a lot of time there over the years. It's a sh1thole."

I meant, "my father is from Bawtry in Doncaster. I've spent a lot of time in Doncaster over the years. It's a sh1thole." Does that clarify things for you?

Old Cantley is quite sweet, but there's nowhere else I'd go out of choice!

I know a lot of people in Doncaster/Barnsley/Sheffield, so I don't make my comments lightly!

But I digress...................

iamana1ias

Soniclord wrote: »

How the hell would she hold back a year one pupil. You pompous fool.

Teachers have to teach at the level of the lowest common denominator. If your daughter is behind because of missing the reception year, that will dictate the way the teacher teaches the entire class. So that's how she could hold another pupil back.

pigpen

iamana1ias wrote: »

Teachers have to teach at the level of the lowest common denominator. If your daughter is behind because of missing the reception year, that will dictate the way the teacher teaches the entire class. So that's how she could hold another pupil back.

That's is wholly incorrect. Teachers and classes cater for a wide range of needs and abilities. Our primary has 17-20% non-english speaking children, 16% SEN and they all do just fine.. noone is held back they teach the core subjects in ability groups.. they children are graded by ability and given work appropriate to the level they are working at. the ones who need more help have a teaching assistant sat with them and the teacher gos round the whole class helping where needed.

In a group of 30 children there are 6 different groups for literacy and numeracy at our primary.. noone is held back..

this is the way teachers are taught to teach (judging by the number of teachers I know.. friends and family) It is more than their job is worth to not encourage more able pupils.

I have only once come across a teacher who 'catered for the mid-range pupils' .. she had my very bright DS1 helping the less able children with their reading at 5!!! She then had the gall to complain to me when he became bored and disruptive.. he didn't get to year 1 at that school.

iamana1ias

pigpen wrote: »

That's is wholly incorrect. Teachers and classes cater for a wide range of needs and abilities. Our primary has 17-20% non-english speaking children, 16% SEN and they all do just fine.. noone is held back they teach the core subjects in ability groups.. they children are graded by ability and given work appropriate to the level they are working at. the ones who need more help have a teaching assistant sat with them and the teacher gos round the whole class helping where needed.

In a group of 30 children there are 6 different groups for literacy and numeracy at our primary.. noone is held back..

this is the way teachers are taught to teach (judging by the number of teachers I know.. friends and family) It is more than their job is worth to not encourage more able pupils.

I have only once come across a teacher who 'catered for the mid-range pupils' .. she had my very bright DS1 helping the less able children with their reading at 5!!! She then had the gall to complain to me when he became bored and disruptive.. he didn't get to year 1 at that school.

I'm a SEN specialist in a pupil referral unit. Again, I speak from experience.

I'd love to hear your explanation of how more kids than ever are leaving school illiterate if all the teachers are meeting everyone's needs

pigpen

iamana1ias wrote: »

I'm a SEN specialist in a pupil referral unit. Again, I speak from experience.

I'd love to hear your explanation of how more kids than ever are leaving school illiterate if all the teachers are meeting everyone's needs

That doesn't make you knowledgable.. that means you are experienced with what goes on in a referral unit.. obviously dealing with children with issues rather than children in a mainstream setting which most children are. Somewhat skewed experience.

Leaving school illiterate.. they didn't go to school! Their parents put no value on education so didn't enforce it and the state turns a blind eye to the ones who repeatedly truant. We have some 5th and 4th generation children whose families don't 'believe' in education or were put off by their own experiences so don't ensure their children go.. it is very sad I feel...

But you being all knowing would know this already surely..???? Or is this another area where your knowledge is lacking?

balletshoes

The ability group scenario is also the one I have experience with, right from reception year. My DD's large class of reception children were put into ability groups for reading and writing after their first half term at school, and this has remained all the way through the school. In this way, more able children are not held back, and the teacher is not having to teach everyone at the level of the "lowest common denominator".

shirlgirl2004

balletshoes wrote: »

The ability group scenario is also the one I have experience with, right from reception year. My DD's large class of reception children were put into ability groups for reading and writing after their first half term at school, and this has remained all the way through the school. In this way, more able children are not held back, and the teacher is not having to teach everyone at the level of the "lowest common denominator".

Although even in the "able" group you will get a range of abilities. When my DD started school at the age of 4 and 1 week she had a reading age of 8 and spelling, comprehension etc was on a par. No-one else came close to her English abilities so with the best will in the world she was held back. Sending her into the Year 1/2 class once a week wasn't going to do a lot.

balletshoes

shirlgirl2004 wrote: »

Although even in the "able" group you will get a range of abilities. When my DD started school at the age of 4 and 1 week she had a reading age of 8 and spelling, comprehension etc was on a par. No-one else came close to her English abilities so with the best will in the world she was held back. Sending her into the Year 1/2 class once a week wasn't going to do a lot.

oh I absolutely agree with you, but the point is that the teacher was not, and not expected to, teach all the children in the class at the level of the least able child (or lowest common denominator).